Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Metro

daringfireball.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 163 posts

Re: Metro

#131

Post by mahrain »

eykanal wrote: post #44

If I'm reading this right, Gruber's effectively saying, "Metro, and Metro alone (i.e., no desktop), is a good competitor to the iPad." That's wonderful; a real iPad competitor. But what about all the rest of the computers? You know, those big things on your desktop? We all know just how smart most users are when it comes to figuring out how to use stuff on a computer. Its taken years to get to the point where your ty…

I'd hate to use this on a 24" display, have icons the size of my hand and using a mouse (or "Magic Touchpad" like device) to swipe somehow.

Re: Metro

#132

Post by ugh »

saint-loup wrote: post #118
Tichy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why Apple is using fake wood backgrounds all over the place? I think they are very cheesy - prefer a "cold" interface, like a command line. Then again, maybe it would cheer me up to configure my shell to use Comic Sans...

It is beyond me how Apple, most of the time, designs minimalist products and interfaces, and suddenly comes cup with really kitsch stuff (iCal, Address Book, Photobooth in fullscreen mode, Time Machine). It's like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

Because it’s different people doing it.

I have long had the theory that the people at the top who could have done something against that (notably Steve Jobs) simply don’t care about that discrepancy, that’s why it can continue.

Re: Metro

#133

Post by technoslut »

evinfinite wrote: post #116
technoslut wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not power productivity suite user but I would have to believe close to all of Office's features can be implemented with the proper UI with the advanced features of the apps hidden away from the eyes of the average user. If it's a question of specs or software maturity then it really is just a matter of time.

It is at this point that I feel obliged to point out that Apple already ships an office suite for the iPad and, bizarrely enough, even the iPhone: http://www.apple.com/apps/keynote/ - http://www.apple.com/apps/pages/ - http://www.apple.com/apps/numbers/

I enjoy these apps but they're certainly not on the level of Office or even iWork for the Mac. I think it's a good start of where we should be going and they've done well in creating a consistent UI across the iPad and iPhone.

Re: Metro

#134

Post by eykanal »

evinfinite wrote: post #116
technoslut wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not power productivity suite user but I would have to believe close to all of Office's features can be implemented with the proper UI with the advanced features of the apps hidden away from the eyes of the average user. If it's a question of specs or software maturity then it really is just a matter of time.

It is at this point that I feel obliged to point out that Apple already ships an office suite for the iPad and, bizarrely enough, even the iPhone: http://www.apple.com/apps/keynote/ - http://www.apple.com/apps/pages/ - http://www.apple.com/apps/numbers/

Good point. Still, this relies heavily on the use of palettes, which we haven't seen in Metro. Maybe they'll have some UI elements like that in Metro, I don't know.

Re: Metro

#135

Post by dragonsky »

gbog wrote: post #84
alex_c wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we'll be seeing a more and more pronounced split in computing and, therefore, interfaces. On one side (the majority) will be "consumers": web, email, Facebook, maybe some light photo editing. On the other side will be the "producers": people who use Photoshop, or Matlab, or AutoCAD. Office falls somewhere in the middle... Office itself may eventually be divided along those lines, with a lightweight, tablet-…

I don't like these ideas Gruber and friends are repeating and repeating again. In the article, it is carved in marble: "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you to do so many [things]". The reasoning behind is that Steve Jobs or other said genius should be choosing for you what you are "allowed" to do. It feels awfully 1984 for me. I live in China and I can tell you it is painfull, sometime, when someone else c…

I'm not saying this is the case, but I think maybe the difficulty the tech crowd has with these new "easy" interfaces is exactly that, they are easy. If everybody can easily use a computer (tablet, phone etc), never looses their files, never picks up a nasty virus, then they don't need us any more.... We lose our exalted position of power as one of the enlightened who "know".

Don't get me wrong. I regularly drop back to the command prompt, and hate having the flexibility of a full system taken away from me. But I also hate that feeling I get when random relative calls up to ask for help with their latest tech disaster. I hate it that configuring operating systems so that they are reliable, robust and functional is almost impossible. I hate it that the operating systems still get in the way of just doing the job.

We're hackers, hobbyists and enthusiasts, we want the computer to be in our faces, that's what we do. The vast majority of users however, hate it when they have to put up with the crap we think is cool just to read an email, or write a document.

Can't remember who the quote is from but it goes something like this, Technology goes through three stages, simple with limited functionality, complex and unreliable, simple and reliable....

I have a feeling that we have started to reach the end of the second stage.

Re: Metro

#136

Post by tlholaday »

gbog wrote: post #110
pyre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you > to do so many [things]". I read this as referring to the examples he talks about later with regards to memory management and restricting the ability to background to preserve battery life. The idea being that tablets -- as devices -- a restricted in their resources, so the environment that the programs run in also have to be restrictive in allocating those resources…

I was more talking about a general trend in design and development that is, I think, based on a misunderstanding of Apple's success. The iPod was a success because it managed to break the constraints of a very small interface giving access to a hudge set of media files, and made something usable out of it. I don't own a Mac but I guess a fair part of MacOS success is owed to the BSD backend, and the terminal, which a…

If you had final authority over the design of a consumer electronics device, and the engineers told you "we will have to ship this with a battery and two spares, and users will have to change batteries twice daily," would you say "That's good enough for GBOG Devices; start the factories"?

Re: Metro

#137

Post by tlholaday »

gbog wrote: post #110
pyre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you > to do so many [things]". I read this as referring to the examples he talks about later with regards to memory management and restricting the ability to background to preserve battery life. The idea being that tablets -- as devices -- a restricted in their resources, so the environment that the programs run in also have to be restrictive in allocating those resources…

I was more talking about a general trend in design and development that is, I think, based on a misunderstanding of Apple's success. The iPod was a success because it managed to break the constraints of a very small interface giving access to a hudge set of media files, and made something usable out of it. I don't own a Mac but I guess a fair part of MacOS success is owed to the BSD backend, and the terminal, which a…

If you had final authority over the design of a consumer electronics device, and the engineers told you "we will have to ship this with a battery and two spares, and users will have to change batteries twice daily," would you say "That's good enough for GBOG Devices; start the factories"?

Re: Metro

#138

Post by 12390ut90 »

Would his opinion have been any different if metro was the only mode available while undocked and classic PC mode was only available while docked?

Metro looks like it competes with iPad and the rest seems to be a version of Win7 under the hood. It feels to me like cmd is to windows as windows is to metro; something under the hood for power users.

I can imagine taking my computer on the bus and reading hacker news in metro and then when I get to work I plug into a dock and open visual studio. That seems to be the vision and I think I like it.

I'd have to control what was going on in the background of my computer when I was undocked, but if I'm enough of a user to set up background server like processes then I should be clever enough to understand that heavy background processing will eat my battery if I don't act responsibly when I unplug it.

The new more powerful ways to do diagnostics are exactly the type of tools I'd want to be able to control power; so it really feels like MS has a similar vision.

Re: Metro

#139

Post by scdc »

gbog wrote: post #84
alex_c wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we'll be seeing a more and more pronounced split in computing and, therefore, interfaces. On one side (the majority) will be "consumers": web, email, Facebook, maybe some light photo editing. On the other side will be the "producers": people who use Photoshop, or Matlab, or AutoCAD. Office falls somewhere in the middle... Office itself may eventually be divided along those lines, with a lightweight, tablet-…

I don't like these ideas Gruber and friends are repeating and repeating again. In the article, it is carved in marble: "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you to do so many [things]". The reasoning behind is that Steve Jobs or other said genius should be choosing for you what you are "allowed" to do. It feels awfully 1984 for me. I live in China and I can tell you it is painfull, sometime, when someone else c…

Constraints are important for innovation. By "not allowing" you do things, new ideas and solutions bubble up. And the market decides if/how much a particular product succeeds. Many devs on this board own both a full computer and an iPad. I do, and enjoy both! Glad to see Metro moving forward and competing with iOS.

Re: Metro

#140

Post by sambeau »

steele wrote: post #112
sambeau wrote: post #10

Metro is really nice. It's great to see Gruber praising it like this: it is very praiseworthy. Also, it's easy to forget that Gruber is first-and-foremost a design geek.

I thought he was an Apple shill first and foremost.

Nope. You should read his rants about Helvetica…
Post reply on HN