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Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

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Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not now force the EU to heavily invest in libreoffice so that it becomes a drop replacement to excel? I'm sure the European union can spare some euros to make it possible and this isn't even a utopian dream that can't be achieved. It just needs a good push

> Why not now force the EU to heavily invest in libreoffice so that it becomes a drop replacement to excel? The history of this strategy working, versus becoming a job/contract bank for cronies over time, is very poor in the long run. Regardless of the political system which attempts it.

if you were to be given a chance to decide if we want to stay proprietary, continue allowing crony companies to steal data while charging us money for that privilege, what would you do. i want to know what you think is the alternative

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#222
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, because the GDPR only concerns itself with EU citizens ( based on which it claims jurisdiction). The US doesn't pretend to bother itself with such trivialities. The same way that US sanctions are applied by the US and everyone everywhere should follow them or risk fines and sanctions. No other country does this - when France sanctions Iran, only French citizens and companies are concerned.

"These laws apply outside our borders because the data is about our citizens" "These laws apply outside our borders because the data is stored by our companies" ...are both examples of projection of power beyond borders, just with very slightly different rationale.

You can see very clearly what's most important for each one: USA cares about money, EU about people. I don't consider it a very slightly different rationale. And it's the same abount health care, really two different ways of life.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not now force the EU to heavily invest in libreoffice so that it becomes a drop replacement to excel? I'm sure the European union can spare some euros to make it possible and this isn't even a utopian dream that can't be achieved. It just needs a good push

I'd rather have my money spent in allowing a fiscal and investment frame so we don't have to think of this top-down approach to everything everytime.

fiscal and investment frame means what exactly?

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#224
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP said: "You are free to share any data with Google that you wish." That is not consistent with GDPR, and that's what I was saying. And the Austrian court has confirmed that. The court has not said that it's illegal to use GA.

Both takes appear to be missing the entire privacy issue - you are free to share your data with the US if you wish. You are not free to share my data with the US. GP is correct, they are not free to share "any data", where their right to share "any data" and my right to privacy conflict. We all love our freedoms - but we have to respect that other people have freedoms too - and we don't have the freedom to take their…

> Both takes appear to be missing the entire privacy issue - you are free to share your data with the US if you wish. You are not free to share my data with the US.

That's an interesting way of putting it; you've phrased it in terms of your personal data and the sharer's personal data. But the context is analytics; single datapoints are irrelevant. This is all about sharing data about other people.

Anyway, EU companies are not allowed to even collect data, unless they can justify it. I don't know if that is supposed to also be extra-territorial, so it applies universally (I really hope not).

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#225
post #52
post #25

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They haven't shined in 25 years. We will just be forced to use inferior products.

Well this might open a HUUUGE market for Analytics in the EU. We might see some competition rise and a good (better?) product emerge.

Precisely. If demand for European cloud services rises companies WILL spring up to deliver. That's basic economics.

Hell it could be the next Boeing-Airbus saga for all we know. The Chinese certainly don't seem particularly bothered telling the US to go fuck itself.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#226
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is not so easy for Google. The US side will always demand stuff from them. At least for having the ability. Microsoft once had the right™ offering: Deutsche Telekom running the Azure data center, so it's the same software etc., but legally fully separated. Didn't get many customers (I don't know what kind of restrictions there were)

Cloudflare currently uses a similar arrangement with JD Cloud to offer service in China. It'd be pretty funny if they had to use the same approach in Europe.

The Chinese seem to have a better grasp on sovereignty and power than the EU.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#227
post #88

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Its not a managed service so its not a direct alternative.

Yes it is, but you have to pay for it https://nextcloud.com/trial/

It sounds pretty hostile to end users:

Please do not email us from private mail addresses like gmail, gmx and the like. We only provide a trial to businesses > 50 employees. As a small business or private user, we recommend you simply try our demo or talk to one of our partners.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with EU legislation in that regard - or rather the current lack of pertinent agreements since the EU–US Privacy Shield has been declared invalid - is that it doesn't just apply to US-based services and US companies. Having a US subsidiary or even just a US-based supplier is enough for an entire company to theoretically be considered in violation of EU laws and GDPR in particular. This means that as a busi…

The problem is USA jurisdiction outside of USA, I'm not a lawyer but how can this be legal under international laws? How is it possible that EU citizen data is under USA jurisdiction?

International law simply is what countries agree upon, either bilaterally or multilaterally. Even if countries disagree and international law indeed favours one party, in most circumstances there's hardly any recourse if that party is the weaker one.

Technically, the US can seize the assets of a US company that refuses to comply with these rules (or simply have their CEO arrested). That's what it comes down to: If a US company has a controlling stake in a subsidiary it's legally obligated to hand over any data that subsidiary controls.

The EU on the other hand could escalate this further and prohibit American citizens and organizations from owning a majority stake in EU-based companies because that's what this boils down to on the other hand: Running or even just doing business with a company that's controlled by a US entity technically is illegal for EU businesses and citizens right now.

This is not a pretty situation, but it's not one either where one side is clearly right and the other side is clearly wrong.

In principle, I agree with the EU point of view. Privacy is a fundamental right that should be upheld. However, de facto outlawing most economic activity and then washing one's hands of any responsibility to provide a reasonable alternative is no solution at all, but makes the problem worse: Businesses might establish legal entities outside the EU, where they're not affected by this. Others might try to host and run everything themselves, which will result in much less secure data and infrastructure because most SMBs simply aren't able to provide the same security standards as Microsoft, Amazon or Google.

It's on the EU und the US to provide a dependable legal framework for dealing with these types of situations. That's ultimately what entities like the EU are for, after all.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#229
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your personal webpage you can always use whatever piwik is called today. (I still can't remember after all these years.) Or you can rely on server logs. Luckily for everyone but simultaneously sadly for the curious ones among us I think the referer header is broken so the thing I always wanted to know - where users came from - is a lot less useful these days.

My website is hosted for free by Netlify. They don't allow me to see the logs though unless I pay $9/month: https://www.netlify.com/products/analytics/ Damn it! Looks like I'll have to set up my own web server and save the logs myself.

If the recent ruling regarding Akamai becomes precedent, Netlify won’t be a viable option either. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=aeb03ae3-1ce7...
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