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Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

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Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#11

Post by htsh »

1. the market being so hot for mid-level engineers means that we are considering and hiring good junior engineers where we cannot find adequate mid-level talent. we would rather hire and develop a junior than compromise.

2. show code on github, sure, but if you can demo the work deployed somewhere it goes much further. everyone has a crypto tracking or twitter sentiment project somewhere, but i need more. if you can deploy the work somewhere in a smart way, great. if you can communicate well, great. a project with a 2-5 minute video tells me a lot more than code alone (which anyone can do with a tutorial).

3. demonstrate that you are easy to work with and that you are willing to learn. if a candidate has enough code or work on their resume, that is great, but a good cultural fit goes a long way.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#12

Post by roflchoppa »

roflchoppa wrote: post #10

If you don't need a large boat of money passed your way, consider working as a staff engineer at a local university, they have less stringent screening on whom to hire, you can find senior engineers that have worked in the private sector for years that have a good information base to tap into, and the work life balance is better. Look at research institutes/universities in the area, for me that was; UCSC, UCB, Lawren…

To add on this, consider unis your timezone, i know we are hiring as long as you're in PST, but we have engineers that have moved to CO and down south in the the LA metro. We just hired a gal over in Seattle to do Data Engineering work for us, but we are located outside the SFBay.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#13

Post by pella »

> does having projects on GitHub help?

yes.

My advice ( valid in the pre-covid era )

- Check the local tech meetups ( https://www.meetup.com )

- Give a presentation.

- In the last side .. add some indirect info about your job search.

- go with an after party - and make a personal connections.. ( and ask advice )

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#14

Post by angarg12 »

I do tons of interviews, particularly at the junior level, so feel free to message if you want more specific tips about the process. I'll share some thoughts here:

* As some have said getting an internship is the easiest way to get an entry level job.

* If you are having trouble getting interviews, try to get referrals. Rely on your network, or don't hesitate to cold message people asking for help. Most people will be happy to help after a cursory check.

* Most people hate leetcode style interviews, but with no experience you can make it work in your advantage. Learn to "play the game" to stack the odds in your favour.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#15

Post by onion2k »

My advice: Know yourself and don't believe the hype.

There are lots of jobs out there, and lots of people will tell you that you need to join a FAANG as a junior on $150k to be successful. That isn't true unless working for a FAANG on $150k is your definition of success. Figure out your criteria (where do you want to live, what hours do you want to work, how much is your ideal baseline salary and how much will you sacrifice for equity lottery tokens or bonuses, what kind of work do you want to do, etc) and don't compromise on them too much.

You're about to go into an in-demand industry with a skill that people want. You are in control. You don't need to settle for the first role that's offered if you don't like it, but you're probably not some sort of genius 100x dev who can demand whatever they want either. Stay grounded, but be ambitious. You're starting out on a pretty exciting journey. Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#16

Post by mooreds »

> I hear the job market is "hot," but is that true of entry positions too?

Not in my experience, based on talking to quite a few newer devs. There are a ton of folks out there.

My advice is:

   * target certain companies
   * stand out
How can you determine which companies to target? I don't know you so can't give direct advice, but generally, find companies that are:

   * growing
   * big enough to support jr devs (this depends on the company, but 50ish for a product company and 10ish for a consulting company is my rule of thumb)
   * in a domain you have some interest in learning more about
   * working with a tech stack you are interested in learning more about
   * in your area or an area you would be willing to move to (for a jr dev, remote can be really tough unless you have prior experience)
Then, research these companies and learn about them. Play with their product. Read about the sector and competitors. If you can, build something that is using their product. Yes, this is a lot more work than just firing off a resume, but it will have a higher ROI too.

Then use this to stand out. Here's an incomplete list of ways to stand out:

   * attend/present at a meetup that the company sponsors or sends folks to
   * meet with the hiring manager/recruiter from the company before you want a job and ask for general career advice
   * share an open source project you built with the same tech stack as the company uses
   * write a few blog posts on the company's sector
   * volunteer at a tech conference where the company may be attending (if they are a ruby shop, at rubyconf, for example)
When you apply at the company, make sure you tune your cover letter and resume to outline how you stand out.

Of course, the pre-requisite is that you can code. Make sure you can do that first.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#17

Post by gppk »

mooreds wrote: post #16

> I hear the job market is "hot," but is that true of entry positions too? Not in my experience, based on talking to quite a few newer devs. There are a ton of folks out there. My advice is: * target certain companies * stand out How can you determine which companies to target? I don't know you so can't give direct advice, but generally, find companies that are: * growing * big enough to support jr devs (this depends…

I've read that the market is hot for experienced devs but its the complete opposite for entry devs!

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#18

Post by mooreds »

gppk wrote: post #17
mooreds wrote: post #16

> I hear the job market is "hot," but is that true of entry positions too? Not in my experience, based on talking to quite a few newer devs. There are a ton of folks out there. My advice is: * target certain companies * stand out How can you determine which companies to target? I don't know you so can't give direct advice, but generally, find companies that are: * growing * big enough to support jr devs (this depends…

I've read that the market is hot for experienced devs but its the complete opposite for entry devs!

That's been my anecdotal experience as well.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#19

Post by suc_syn »

Hello, I am currently hiring for 2 junior positions. There are a few different things I look for in juniors. First is smart and gets things done, any history you can show of building your own projects, from what the motivation was, how you established a goal of "finished" and how you got it there. Also what as the person shown a lot of interest in, and where does it look like their career is going. If you have been doing a lot of graphic programming or building software interfaces for hardware then why are you applying to my web dev position? Do I think the few years of training you will get me more years for productivity, so try to look for roles that align with your interests. Second technical skills stuff. Do you know how to use any IDE, bonus points if you are familiar with the one that is commonly used in our group. We make heavy use of GitHub so you would get bonus points if you are familiar with it but won't get penalized if you aren't, I assume that hiring a junior is hiring somebody that needs to be taught everything, and anything that you are already familiar with will be great. Third soft skills, especially for junior positions, I am way more interested in somebody that is bright, easy to work with, and will fit into the team well than I am looking for a diamond in the rough that will turn into a 10x engineer but is also a giant pain to work with. After 2 years of working together if I need get a ping that is you asking for help am I going to feel excited for the chance to teach and work together or am I going to clench my teeth and try to punt it until later. As for getting through the HR/recruiter screening each manager should have a sense of what their tolerance for teaching is. You should apply to any job that seems interesting to you, and let them tell you no. Very rarely are position metrics hard requirements 1-2 years could also accept candidates fresh out of school or boot camp.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for applying to Junior Software Engineering roles?

#20

Post by mrsuprawsm »

cocoflunchy wrote: post #8
savant_penguin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"reach out to key decision makers in the company you're applying for." I'd be really concerned the decision maker would not consider this proactive but rather creepy

No hiring manager will be finding a dev candidate reaching out creepy. The worst that can happen would be to be redirected to HR.

I am a hiring manager and I would find it creepy and mildly annoying. Most companies have formal application processes for a reason.
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