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Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

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Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#171
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Libertarianism is so silly. "My freedom to live would be best served if there weren't politicians micromanaging other people's right to murder me". It's like a parody.

Not a great comparison. This is about who gets to decide whether or not to take the risk to deal with U.S companies in spite of the fact that they may be forced to hand over data to the U.S government. Is that my decision or does the government of my country take that decision for me?

I think it's a question on which reasonable people can disagree.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#172
post #109

I’m guessing this does not include UK based websites these days? What about people viewing from the EU? All very confusing.

IANAL, but the UK has kept (for now) an implementation of the GDPR, and judges may opt to take into account the GDPR their law was based upon when it was drafted. However, there's no guarantee they'll consider that with too much weight, because they're no longer bound by the EU legislation. For the UK, I'd say the current state is "probably just as illegal, until the law changes, but it's not been tested in court so you may risk it".

The GDPR covers the privacy of individuals residing in the EU. That means you don't need to track which user has which nationality, you can just make decisions based on the location of your users. If you're an American company targeting American customers then you don't need to worry about Europeans passing by on their holidays. If the request comes from the EU, don't load your personal data collection code, internal or external, if you're unsure about the legality.

That said, if you don't offer any services (free or paid) to the EU and one of your customers happens to use your service on a business trip, you don't need to worry either. This mostly applies to contracts and data procession, much less to actual websites and web services reachable from anywhere, but it's an exemption that'll save a lot of data hoarding companies that track Americans, Asians, etc. through indirect means.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#173
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have IRC and it shines bright! But seriously: Google just needs to move the problematic part of their EU business into EU and start complying.

it is not so easy for Google. The US side will always demand stuff from them. At least for having the ability. Microsoft once had the right™ offering: Deutsche Telekom running the Azure data center, so it's the same software etc., but legally fully separated. Didn't get many customers (I don't know what kind of restrictions there were)

Cloudflare currently uses a similar arrangement with JD Cloud to offer service in China. It'd be pretty funny if they had to use the same approach in Europe.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#174
post #17

As far as I understand it, it's not Google Analytics per se that is illegal, but the data transfer to the US. If Google Analytics would use servers on European ground it should be fine. Or would that still violate GDPR as Google as an American company can still be coerced to give access to data stored on their servers outside the US? But I can't imagine that to be the case, as it would effectively mean that any busin…

From the Schrems II judgment: > Where the controller or a processor established in the European Union is not able to take adequate additional measures to guarantee such protection, the controller or processor or, failing that, the competent supervisory authority, are required to suspend or end the transfer of personal data to the third country concerned. It would seem as though any EU company that can be compelled to…

guess this meant EU company can't do business with Chinese either.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#175
post #86

The CLOUD Act itself is the issue. Don't use MS Office 365 or any other US based service even if their servers are in Europe as they can not guarantee that your data is not accessible by the US. Amazon and Cloudflare are all great service but your data is under US jurisdiction.

Interestingly, Google afaik did some funky business with SAP where they swap jurisdiction around so that when faced with US request they can at some point say "send it to SAP AG and see if they care" - or so it seemed few years ago (source: notification of contract change wrt GCP)

Obviously if the EU actually grew some fucking balls and start to enforce the rules corporations would take steps to comply. But when was the last time a US CEO was dragged of a private jet?

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#176
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy law in the EU is harmonized.

Yes, but not automatically and immediately as far as I know.

The law was already in place, there are no changes there. It was just a question how it should have been interpreted in this case afaik.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#177
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have IRC and it shines bright! But seriously: Google just needs to move the problematic part of their EU business into EU and start complying.

it is not so easy for Google. The US side will always demand stuff from them. At least for having the ability. Microsoft once had the right™ offering: Deutsche Telekom running the Azure data center, so it's the same software etc., but legally fully separated. Didn't get many customers (I don't know what kind of restrictions there were)

It is just as easy as it is to run EU things in the US.

Google can run the same servers and stuff in Europe with European stuff in their own servers. They just disable things not allowed in EU and don't send user data to the US.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#178
post #94

What does it mean these days to be a “European website” (or a “Canadian website”, etc)? The server is located in Europe? The domain name is owned by a company registered in Europe? What if a CDN serves the site from another location? What if the site is served in an iframe on a site in another location?

It's about the user, not the website.

I'd guess a "European website" stands for a website that safeguards EU users by being compliant with GDPR.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#179
As a European, frankly this is ridiculous.

I'm as concerned as anyone about privacy issues but GDPR has just gone too far in the sense that nobody really understands it (I've undergone trainings with 2x previous employers and everyone just kind of shrugs that it doesn't make sense and we'll do our best bla bla bla ...) and that now they're trying to make an actual useful piece of software illegal? And that for reasons that the very people they're trying to protect will completely fail to understand.

So many marketing departments depend on it, how can they realistically enforce this law?

I'm saying this as someone who's not a fanboy, GA can be a pain to use and overly complex, maybe Matomo is even better.

This is typical EU over reaching bs.

Re: Austria's data protection authority has found that Google Analytics is illegal

#180
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for CLOUD Act to not apply If there is oversight from the US (i.e. it is still the owner), this is not possible.

Nope. I've heard some people talk about company constructions where you create a new officially unaffiliated company in the EU, that then just lends the IP to create a datacenter from the US-based companies, but I'm not sure if that's actually feasible.

If that company is entirely separate (but happens to have the same investors) and no more money flows between them than the cost of IP, then that may just work. You'll have to be careful not to let shares fall into the wrong hands, though because the two companies might eventually grow apart as a result of having different shareholders with different opinions.

Such a move might also be frowned upon by the American government, because you're essentially cutting them off from part of your company. I think this concept would work from an EU standpoint, but it wouldn't surprise me if the US government would prevent you from doing that, or even hold you personally accountable.

You'd also need to get a pretty good analysis of tax laws because suddenly the top owner of the company isn't foreign to the EU anymore, and that could be a problem for the tax evasion schemes big tech is such a fond of.

All in all, I doubt it's worth the hassle. As a customer of Google Analytics you'd need to have some logic to load either the European or the global analytics script, and the data cannot be combined into one overview without stripping a lot of important context (or breaking the law in the same way).

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