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Metro

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101–110 of 163 posts

Re: Metro

#101
Bias is one thing, but this relatively picky, especially for Gruber who can't stand when people pick apart Apple pre-dev.

I love Apple, but I really respect what Microsoft is trying to do here. The whole "You did great, kid, but maybe next time..." routine is a little much. It smells like a smear campaign more than an inquiring mind. This article stinks of fear.

Re: Metro

#102
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speaking from the beta. The act of going between a "traditional" looking UI and Metro and what is available in each is very disjointed.

It's not a beta!

Yeah, exactly. It's alpha, and it feels that way. That the dev preview doesn't resume state well when you go from Metro -> Desktop -> Metro didn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm sure it's one of a litany of features and fixes they're planning on.

Re: Metro

#103
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think cohesiveness across these systems needs to be a prereq. In classic mode things should work great. In Metro mode things should work great. Bumpiness in transition, IMO, is acceptable for v1. To put it another way, I'd much rather have bumpiness shipped on day X rather than a delay to clear up all the transition bumpiness and ship 6 months after X. Although I'd like to see updates that fix the transitions…

Then why even put Metro on if they are striving for only half a level of perfection? Why not wait until they've got it solid before releasing? What would make me very pleased is if they delayed 6 months to get it right rather than rush it out.

Why do you keep pushing on the idea that this is some sort of finished release of Windows 8? It's a developer preview, that's alpha stage at best.

Re: Metro

#104
post #35

I feel like one of the few who sees the emperor with no clothes. Let me first start by stating that I do believe that touchscreen devices will continue to revolutionize industries, as they already have. But, why in God's name are Microsoft and Apple trying to shoehorn the touch-screen onto the desktop? Mac OS X Lion is probably the last OS X version that we'll see. With each version it's gotten closer and closer to b…

I don't think Microsoft is merging both UIs at all. I think MS wants to pretend that Metro is something you'll use with keyboard and mouse, but I bet you won't, and they know that.

My thinking is that MS wants to sell you a hybrid tablet device. By day, you have it docked, and you spend most of your time in Desktop with mouse and keyboard. When it's going home time, you pull it out the dock, and it becomes a touchscreen tablet where you spend most of your time in Metro.

Re: Metro

#105
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metro can have a lot of personality. Eg. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qghf4e2n0Yc&hd=1 http://immersivenick.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/hohm-window... http://www.mobileguerilla.com/images/windows-phone-7-xbox.jp... http://www.mobileguerilla.com/images/windows-phone-7-office.... http://www.mobileguerilla.com/images/windows-phone-7-zune.jp... Can you really say that the app above has no personality? In-depth M…

Hotlinking means bandwidth theft, bru.

To be fair, that's probably there mostly to prevent other sites from embedding those images rather than to prevent linking from forum posts.

Re: Metro

#106
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a member of the more en vogue crossover family?

I own a crossover. And with the newness that is Metro, yours is a better analogy.

Thanks. Does a crossover give (most of) the benefits of an SUV without the bad gas mileage and environmentally unfriendly vibe?

Re: Metro

#107
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, photoshop isn't going to be going Metro anytime soon, and neither is Matlab, or Autocad, or Excel, or video editing software, or any "Pro" program (for lack of a better word). I'd actually be surprised if there isn't a fully staffed team working on a Metro version of the Office suite.

But what would it look like? Consider Powerpoint. There needs to be a way to switch slide layout, add elements to the slide, work with animations & transitions, reorder slides, etc. And that's just some of the things that users will want to do all the time, on almost every slide. There's just no way to have that sort of rich interface in Metro. Heck, there's not even a menubar . Remember, we're talking about regular…

There's just no way to have that sort of rich interface in Metro.

You must've missed the "charm", sliding & docking side-windows part of the Metro demos at BUILD.

Re: Metro

#108
post #88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like these ideas Gruber and friends are repeating and repeating again. In the article, it is carved in marble: "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you to do so many [things]". The reasoning behind is that Steve Jobs or other said genius should be choosing for you what you are "allowed" to do. It feels awfully 1984 for me. I live in China and I can tell you it is painfull, sometime, when someone else c…

I don't like it either (hell, most of us here on HN won't like it... we love to tinker and break things and get under the hood), but that doesn't mean it's not the most likely direction. You describe it as a struggle between totalitarian and democratic ideologies, with all the moral and ethical implications. I think it's really about a third, much more powerful force: giving people what they want. This is tangential,…

>I think it's really about a third, much more powerful force: giving people what they want.

What people want depends, to a large degree, on their level of education, what they're exposed to, and what leaders and the media tell them they should want. It will be interesting seeing how pop computing and lock-down devices do globally in the long-term.

Re: Metro

#109
post #88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like these ideas Gruber and friends are repeating and repeating again. In the article, it is carved in marble: "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you to do so many [things]". The reasoning behind is that Steve Jobs or other said genius should be choosing for you what you are "allowed" to do. It feels awfully 1984 for me. I live in China and I can tell you it is painfull, sometime, when someone else c…

I don't like it either (hell, most of us here on HN won't like it... we love to tinker and break things and get under the hood), but that doesn't mean it's not the most likely direction. You describe it as a struggle between totalitarian and democratic ideologies, with all the moral and ethical implications. I think it's really about a third, much more powerful force: giving people what they want. This is tangential,…

Thanks for the link. I am no historian but I have the impression that Human history would show that Orwell's fears are more grounded, as the totalitarian world he described has actually been implemented for real in many occurences, far away in the past (maybe under Pharaos? certainly under Qinshihuang) and closer (USSR, PRC). It is possible that Huxley's fears are a bit less likely to happen for real. Maybe Roman empire had a pinch of it (panem et circenses) but even then roman people (the free ones) had their freedom, and some used it to write books, create things, etc.

However I am extremely opposed to entertainment feeding, I don't watch TV, nor do I read magazines, so I agree with Huxley (and you?). But I don't think it is closely related to my impression that some people go too far in the "don't say yes to all" direction.

The good reason for tool creators to say no is not because they know better how the tool should be used, it is because they know that saying yes to request A would forbid the tool to be used in ways B and C, and other unprospected ways. Saying no is ok when it actually opens new doors.

Re: Metro

#110
post #97
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like these ideas Gruber and friends are repeating and repeating again. In the article, it is carved in marble: "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you to do so many [things]". The reasoning behind is that Steve Jobs or other said genius should be choosing for you what you are "allowed" to do. It feels awfully 1984 for me. I live in China and I can tell you it is painfull, sometime, when someone else c…

> "the advantages that come from NOT allowing you > to do so many [things]". I read this as referring to the examples he talks about later with regards to memory management and restricting the ability to background to preserve battery life. The idea being that tablets -- as devices -- a restricted in their resources, so the environment that the programs run in also have to be restrictive in allocating those resources…

I was more talking about a general trend in design and development that is, I think, based on a misunderstanding of Apple's success. The iPod was a success because it managed to break the constraints of a very small interface giving access to a hudge set of media files, and made something usable out of it. I don't own a Mac but I guess a fair part of MacOS success is owed to the BSD backend, and the terminal, which allowed to do real pro developpper work on it. Terminal, command line and scripting is hard for beginners, but it gives a lot of power.

Now we are told that iPad don't allow background process and that it is a good thing. If the only reason is battery life, then it is not good enough a reason for me (I have two spare Nexus batteries in my pocket, what is the problem?). Somewhere else we are told that we should not expect direct access to our own files because "files are so 1990", or because iTune will handle them. I don't agree with that view. There ARE files behind the pages or handles or icons I see on my screens, and they are MY files (pictures, docs, etc.) It is ok that the main use of this content is done through some cloudy vapored tool, but I need the possibility to grab the file, MY file, and make what I want with it (including, obviously, destroying it).

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