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NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

nasa.gov

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Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#71

Post by [deleted] »

EREFUNDO wrote: post #69
EREFUNDO wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The emperor who replaced Zhu Di was more conservative and thought that China should close its doors. He famously said that "The outside world had nothing to offer China, it is too primitive and backwards, leave it alone." This inward looking mentality, fueled by the belief in your own superiority, is the disease of great powers. I am afraid that in some ways the United States has become one, maybe it's a goo…

The eventual decline and stagnation was the effect of the decision to close China's doors. But the cause of the end of the expeditions was largely financial. Culture also has an important role to play. The Chinese were not looking for new lands or have any interest in converting people to their religion. They were looking for respect and recognition. They want to prove to the world that China is the undisputed power…

[deleted]

Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#72

Post by EREFUNDO »

VladRussian wrote: post #70
EREFUNDO wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The eventual decline and stagnation was the effect of the decision to close China's doors. But the cause of the end of the expeditions was largely financial. Culture also has an important role to play. The Chinese were not looking for new lands or have any interest in converting people to their religion. They were looking for respect and recognition. They want to prove to the world that China is the undisputed power…

>Culture also has an important role to play. The Chinese were not looking for new lands or have any interest in converting people to their religion. Bingo. Gene Roddenberry's genius is replacing the classical humans' violence fueled drivers of "new lands or ... interest in converting people to their religion" with "to explore new worlds, to seek out a new life, and new civilizations" :) I hope that he will eventually…

haha......maybe the Chinese were following an earlier version of the prime directive...LOL

Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#74

Post by mturmon »

cpeterso wrote: post #21
coderdude wrote: post #4

This is great news! Hopefully the final version isn't as ugly as the artist's conception: http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/multimedia/galle... Kind of reminds me of a rocket used for the Apollo missions (although it's not) with some Space Shuttle SRBs attached to the side. The first version shown in the video actually looks kind of cool -- like something SpaceX would have built. It's a good thing progress…

Why are space ships always white? If the designers are not going to use cool colors, they could at least give the rocket racing stripes or "go Nascar" with tons of advertisements. :)

The image you see is an artist's rendering, of course.

The Shuttle main engines used to be painted white (this is the big central tank supplying liquid hydrogen and oxygen to the engine).

But it turned out to save about 600lb to leave it unpainted, so that's what they did for all later launches. The tank already has an insulator. You can see both versions in Shuttle launch imagery.

From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_external_tank):

"The original ET is informally known as the Standard Weight Tank (SWT) and is fabricated from 2219 - a high strength aluminium-copper alloy used for many aerospace applications. The first two, used for STS-1 and STS-2, were painted white to protect the tanks from ultraviolet light during the extended time that the shuttle spends on the launch pad prior to launch.[4] Because this did not turn out to be a problem and in order to reduce weight, Lockheed Martin ceased painting the external tanks beginning with STS-3, leaving the rust-colored spray-on insulation bare, saving approximately 272 kg (600 lb) of weight."

Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#76

Post by derrida »

russell wrote: post #57
derrida wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You worked on the Apollo Project!!! What was your role in the Apollo Project?

I worked at the MIT Instrumentation Lab on a compiler for the Apollo Guidance computer. The language was rather bizarre. Each line was encoded on 3 punched cards. One for the main expression, one for subscripts, and one for superscripts. I was pretty junior so my task was really at the front end processing compiler options and reading the input. The Lab was a really interesting place. Lots of high end 360's, which co…

That is really cool!

What if the guidance computer operated with a bad parser? I imagine that could have been disastrous.

Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#78

Post by rbanffy »

russell wrote: post #57
derrida wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You worked on the Apollo Project!!! What was your role in the Apollo Project?

I worked at the MIT Instrumentation Lab on a compiler for the Apollo Guidance computer. The language was rather bizarre. Each line was encoded on 3 punched cards. One for the main expression, one for subscripts, and one for superscripts. I was pretty junior so my task was really at the front end processing compiler options and reading the input. The Lab was a really interesting place. Lots of high end 360's, which co…

> my role was miniscule, but I am still very proud

Most individual roles tend to be minuscule, specially in such a huge endeavor. But you should be proud nevertheless - you and others like you made some of our greatest voyages of exploration possible.

It will be very tragic if Mercury, Gemini and Apollo continue to be the best examples of space exploration done right. We need to do better and we need your shoulders to stand on.

Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#79

Post by ugh »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #68
hga wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, long before it first launched we knew the Shuttle was a shoddy design: The SRBs saved money on development but are very bad for human flight, you want engines you can turn off. The insane fragile tile and leading edge heat protection, all to satisfy a "requirement" the Air Force didn't care about, a Vandenburg single orbit polar mission (to return to the same spot on Earth while it's rotated under you requires…

I'm aware of the shuttles limitations and the politics behind them, but the Soyuz system isn't any safer. I'm just skeptical of this sudden "ZOMG DRAGONX SAFETY WILL BE AWESOME" assumption that so many pro-privatization types seem to have. Considering how many times their rockets have blown up already perhaps its best to be not drawing any conclusions thus far.

Whut? Soyuz has a better safety record.

Re: NASA Announces Design for New Deep Space Exploration System

#80

Post by bfe »

hga wrote: post #15

Ah, yes, the Senate Launch System. Looks rather like the more sensible DIRECT; I haven't looked closely at it yet, but from glancing at the Wikipedia entry the Feb 11 design shows it's already a boondoggle (as reported by people I trust) by using 5 segment SRBs, one of the fatal flaws of the Ares I (going from 4 to 5 segments results in thrust oscillations severe enough to kill the crew). And from what they're not sa…

I know a few people who know more than me about astro engineering who approve of these jumbo SRBs... but I still just don't buy that they're a good idea for human-rated launch systems. U.S. astronauts who are used to flying on the Space Shuttle and then ride a Soyuz up to orbit can't believe how incredibly smooth and peaceful liftoff is - because the propulsion system is just liquid kerosene - liquid oxygen. Launch stacks with SRBs have to have so much extra weight in structural support just to deal with the immense acoustic load - and even then, it's hard to accept that they can reach the level of inherent safety of a straight liquid fuel stack.
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