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Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

artforum.com

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Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#61

Post by [deleted] »

toyg wrote: post #24
s_dev wrote: post #8

This was received very well by the artistic community in Ireland so it's odd to see people remarking it's not much or will do little. Certainly better than tolerating the open secret that many of them weren't' "actively looking for work" when claiming the dole.

People being given free money say it's good they've been given free money. News at 11. > Certainly better than tolerating the open secret that many of them weren't' "actively looking for work" when claiming the dole. I agree there. The real move forward is the (re)acceptance that certain sectors of society are a poor fit for the salaried-work/commercial-enterprise model. It's the good part of socialism, which should…

[deleted]

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#63

Post by socialdemocrat »

Is it right to call this UBI? In Norway we have supported artists economically since at least the mid 1800s. Playwrights like Henrik Ibsen got paid by the government after decisions by the Parliament.

This is payment for contributing specifically to the cultural enrichment of the country while UBI as a system has no strings attached.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#64

Post by illwrks »

richrichardsson wrote: post #46
chrismorgan wrote: post #15

> two thousand arts and culture workers for a span of three years … earmarked €25 million for the plan … top recommendation … €10.50 per hour 3 years × 2,000 hours per year (estimate of full time employment) × €10.50 per hour × 2,000 people = €126 million, five times as much as is earmarked (even ignoring administrative costs). Perhaps it’s 400 rather than 2,000, perhaps it’s not full-time, perhaps the mention of the…

I've never really looked too closely at the idea of UBI, although I like the concept. I always assumed that any money you earn would then be deducted from future payments. With completely arbitrary numbers, let's say UBI was 1000€/month and I earned 500€ in a particular month, then next month my UBI payment would be reduced by that amount. If I earned 1500€ my next UBI payment would be zero, but the excess 500€ would…

"a basic income pilot program that would award SELECTED arts workers €10.50 ($11.90) per hour."

Selected is the key word. I imagine it would be only a handful that are paid to be full time artists, while the remainder might get funding for specific projects or periods of time.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#65

Post by unwind »

chrismorgan wrote: post #15

> two thousand arts and culture workers for a span of three years … earmarked €25 million for the plan … top recommendation … €10.50 per hour 3 years × 2,000 hours per year (estimate of full time employment) × €10.50 per hour × 2,000 people = €126 million, five times as much as is earmarked (even ignoring administrative costs). Perhaps it’s 400 rather than 2,000, perhaps it’s not full-time, perhaps the mention of the…

2,000 hours at 40 hours/week is 50 weeks. As a European, that sounds really really high.

I believe around 1,700 is the real average for all of EU, for instance. That is not enough of course to change the result much (at 1,700 hours they would need €107 or just above four times the earmarked amount), I just wanted to point it out.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#66

Post by maxehmookau »

bloqs wrote: post #50
maxehmookau wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fairly well documented fact at this point that abuse of Diane Abbott's incorrect use of maths is driven mostly by misogynistic online abuse and hate-filled newspapers looking ot make a quick buck. I'm not suggesting that's you, but please don't perpetuate it. You don't have to look far beyond the people in power right now to see politicians making stuff up or saying things that are completely untrue. Why is Di…

A Guardian article quoting her party colleague isn't exactly an unbaised or even evidential source. Dianne Abbott is clearly capable in many areas, but the examples that follow her around persist precisely for that reason. She should have known better.

Except any mention of her in the right-wing press and online is always designed to make her look entirely incapable. The meme is "she's stupid", not "she's great and capable, but got some maths wrong."

I digress though. The mention of her here perpetuates a lazy stereotype about a politician in a different country. It adds nothing to the discussion and seeks to make a politician of a different country appear stupid.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#69

Post by dskloet »

richrichardsson wrote: post #46
chrismorgan wrote: post #15

> two thousand arts and culture workers for a span of three years … earmarked €25 million for the plan … top recommendation … €10.50 per hour 3 years × 2,000 hours per year (estimate of full time employment) × €10.50 per hour × 2,000 people = €126 million, five times as much as is earmarked (even ignoring administrative costs). Perhaps it’s 400 rather than 2,000, perhaps it’s not full-time, perhaps the mention of the…

I've never really looked too closely at the idea of UBI, although I like the concept. I always assumed that any money you earn would then be deducted from future payments. With completely arbitrary numbers, let's say UBI was 1000€/month and I earned 500€ in a particular month, then next month my UBI payment would be reduced by that amount. If I earned 1500€ my next UBI payment would be zero, but the excess 500€ would…

That's a terrible way to implement UBI. It causes the dreaded welfare trap where people are incentivized to do nothing. UBI should be unconditional. This makes it much easier to implement, removes the stigma, and most importantly avoids the welfare trap. You want people who rely on welfare to be encouraged to become self sufficient, not trap them in dependence.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#70

Post by fvdessen »

Ekaros wrote: post #60
onion2k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it can just be their hobby right? Except that's not what actually happens. People working a full time job (or more than one job) don't have the time or energy to also be a part-time artist until they make it. This is especially true for people who have other responsibilities like raising children or car…

If their skills aren't marketable in free market, why should other people subsidise them? I would much rather the money to be spend on something actually productive or physical. And not wasted entirely on art...

Because if the only culture you have is the marketable one it will be McDonalds, Disney and Marvel
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