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Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

artforum.com

51–60 of 235 posts

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#51
I wish for the cynics and for the literary connoisseurs that the next James Joyce comes out of this programme.

Norway has had a stipend programme for writers for some time.

Interesting question: how does not "prove" to be an artist, and a needy one at that? At the moment it's a lottery.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#52
> Martin emphasized the importance of aiding artists in continuing their work. “The minister is conscious of the value that this sector brings to all Irish citizens,”

What about the work of health workers, delivery people, drivers, employees in supermarkets, cleaners, constructions workers, etc.?

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#53
post #29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

For background "Diane Abbott" is a bit of a UK meme for when any political/government does bad maths. This if from a few instances of such maths: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWYIkhJdOZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxjkvjHn6Qg But we all have such moments, she just did it publicly a few times and with that, a meme was born.

There is more than a whiff of racism in the wanton attacks she faced.

She received more death and rape threats than any other female MP, for example.

Somehow there were more memes for fluffing her figures in one interview than the future leader got for hiding from a journalist in a fridge a week or so later.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#54

> Martin emphasized the importance of aiding artists in continuing their work. “The minister is conscious of the value that this sector brings to all Irish citizens,” What about the work of health workers, delivery people, drivers, employees in supermarkets, cleaners, constructions workers, etc.?

They probably do not have as strong a lobby.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#55

> two thousand arts and culture workers for a span of three years … earmarked €25 million for the plan … top recommendation … €10.50 per hour 3 years × 2,000 hours per year (estimate of full time employment) × €10.50 per hour × 2,000 people = €126 million, five times as much as is earmarked (even ignoring administrative costs). Perhaps it’s 400 rather than 2,000, perhaps it’s not full-time, perhaps the mention of the…

I've never really looked too closely at the idea of UBI, although I like the concept. I always assumed that any money you earn would then be deducted from future payments. With completely arbitrary numbers, let's say UBI was 1000€/month and I earned 500€ in a particular month, then next month my UBI payment would be reduced by that amount. If I earned 1500€ my next UBI payment would be zero, but the excess 500€ would…

I believe most implementations do not do that. That could lead to a disincentive for work, since you would need to make the entire amount of the ubi payment before your labor is benefiting you.

It is usually a flat rate for everyone, no matter the income. If you want more money, you sell your labor like normal

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#57
post #4

To me universal basic income is just that, universal. This feels like the government employing 2000 people and telling them to do nothing in particular. Also it seems the payment is set to the Irish minimum wage of €10.50 p/h. I would love to know what an actual minimum wage worker thinks of this scheme.

> telling them to do nothing in particular Nobody told them anything close to that. Any research towards basic income tells us that people continue working close to as much as before. So this seems like a really unnecessary combative comment. Regarding minimum wage workers, one thing can be bad, while the other is also bad. So not really an argument.

> Any research towards basic income tells us that people continue working close to as much as before

I am curious about the research in this field. Living in Israel I see the Ultra-Orthodox being payed for studying the scriptures and they work much less than their secular peers. Knowing corrupt countries, I know of tons of people employed by the state and local authorities just to give them jobs - it is a sign of malfunctioning and corruption usually - and they often do nothing in their job.

What those examples have in common is that they create a class of people dependent on a party or on some politician to eat their meal. This entrenches tribalism and corruption.

Also there is a very big difference between "universal basic income" - which would be an extension of human rights accorded to all, and paying some "artists" money. The former may be the evolution of the latter but there is no way to be certain. I am not familiar with Ireland but I suspect it is a trick of some party to secure thousands of certain votes, and probably even to use them for propaganda (I want to see those artists expose critical views of the party that gives them money..).

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#58

> Martin emphasized the importance of aiding artists in continuing their work. “The minister is conscious of the value that this sector brings to all Irish citizens,” What about the work of health workers, delivery people, drivers, employees in supermarkets, cleaners, constructions workers, etc.?

I think the point is you can gain employment as a:

  health workers, delivery people, drivers, employees in supermarkets, cleaners, constructions workers
But you can't really get employed or have a regular income as an artist (well you can but it's quite difficult).

I think a good comparison might be home carers or stay at home parents. Very hard to have a regular income from these also

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#59
post #51

I wish for the cynics and for the literary connoisseurs that the next James Joyce comes out of this programme. Norway has had a stipend programme for writers for some time. Interesting question: how does not "prove" to be an artist, and a needy one at that? At the moment it's a lottery.

How often does a new James Joyce arise out of government subsidies?

We spend much more money on art than in 1920, yet the art quality does not seem to have improved proportionately, indeed it possibly went down. That might or might not be causal (possibly talented people do not choose to be artists anymore), but it is still worrying.

There is a lot of gatekeeping around art and professionals tend to declare opinions of amateurs for null and void, but as a reader I still miss a new Oscar Wilde.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#60
post #30
post #6

There was a debate regarding this topic just recently in Poland, where they wanted to introduce something of this kind. This is wrong in so many ways. It will encourage people to basically pretend they're doing some kind of art even if they're not. If someone is a real artist imo, they will manage. It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it c…

It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it can just be their hobby right? Except that's not what actually happens. People working a full time job (or more than one job) don't have the time or energy to also be a part-time artist until they make it. This is especially true for people who have other responsibilities like raising children or car…

If their skills aren't marketable in free market, why should other people subsidise them? I would much rather the money to be spend on something actually productive or physical. And not wasted entirely on art...
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