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How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

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Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#141
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on how deep you dig, but of course going deep enough has a cost that may be far greater than the kind of insulation you used. The 20-25% of increase in cost is a good proxi (from my personal experience I would have said 25-30%), but, from an economical standpoint it should be compared with savings over time (in the same region). To give you an example in Italy, last time I calculated it, this 25-30% incr…

5% return per year (or more in case of price changes or regulations forcing you to change heating source) does not seem that "philosophical".

I don't understand fully your way of reasoning.

A normal house costs - say - 200,000 "units" (dollars, euro, whatever).

Making it "energy saving" costs an additional 60,000 units.

In 20 years time you will be spending 60,000 units (3,000 per year) less for energy costs (and here we are assuming that ventilation and heating/cooling machines in the "better" house have the same maintenance costs than the ones in "normal" house, whilst usually, since they are more complex systems they tend to be more expensive).

You essentially have a "break even" point 20 years in the future, from there onwards you start saving money.

First thing, you need, now, 260,000 units instead of 200,000 (and not all people may be able to afford this).

Then, if, for whatever reasons, you don't use the house at all times in these 20 years, or you need to sell it before that time you are unlikely to fully get the savings.

Additionally, in less than 20 years time it is possible that someone comes out with a mega-para-hyper-ultra climatization device that makes yearly energy costs go down by (say) 90%.

So, if you want to do the "right thing" from a climate/energy savings point of view, by any means choose to invest in a passive house, but it remains essentially a "philosophical" decision, not an economical one.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#142
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well try non-insulated tiles here in Spain haha. I don't know why houses are built to such a low standard in Spain. Even the UK had better quality constructions when I was there, and that says a lot (single glazed windows, poor insulation, weak plumbing)

no harsh climate overall so much less insulation is needed?

Mainland Spain falls into the single digits at night at winter so definitely would need insulation, because there is also no central heating. People resort to heating with their aircons and portable heaters. I'm sad because I expected better infrastructure from 45% income tax at the highest bracket.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#143
I think this is one of those things where people generally agree that better insulation and lower energy costs is a good thing but who pays for it?

In the UK, there is a constant demand for "affordable housing", which is caused by governments not controlling the housing market from either foreign investors or also people using the housing bubble to buy up loads of properties over time forcing others to rent.

Bearing in mind how much profit a lot of home builders make, increasing the regulations is likely to add at least £20K to a basic house, significantly more if you include mechanical ventilation, triple-glazed windows and heat pumps (perhaps +£50K), which is some cases will be 50%+ of the original cost!

Another major problem is the quality of building in the UK, mainly driven by a lack of tradespeople, and simply not having the skills to install to the quality levels required by thermally efficient houses like installing a membrane with zero holes in it, using the correct tapes, designing, installing and maintaining heat pumpes and various other things.

I think these challenges will get better over time but that is probably why governments aren't keen to make large improvements in energy-efficiency regulations.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#144
post #128

The article shows off snazzy housing for wealthy people, but as far as I know all new housing finished in the EU as of 2021 is supposed to be built to these standards. So it's not restricted to architecture magazine, it's just regular houses. See e.g. https://www.igbc.ie/nzeb/

Actually, article complains that Building Code is pretty low standard in NZ and that non-wealthy suffers as they live in not-so-well insulated houses.

But speaking from northern EU country - yeah, I don't see anyone here building non-insulated houses.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#145
post #11

It saddens me that construction quality is almost irrelevant when building a new building nowadays. The profit difference between a well-isolated passive building and one that merely meets the minimal standards, is often very small, so why bother building a passive building? My personal interest in passive buildings generally revolve around maintenance. Passive houses seem to require far less maintenance.

> It saddens me that construction quality is almost irrelevant when building a new building nowadays. Depends on where you live; houses in the Netherlands are built to high standards when it comes to things like insulation, build quality, electrification, etc. Are houses in the US still built with 2x4's and drywall? You'd think they would move to what we have here in the Netherlands, mostly sturdy concrete blocks, in…

> I mean the amount of clips I see on the youtubes of people breaking walls make me cringe. A wall should break you, not the other way around

The external wall un old French house can easily reach 55/60cm of pure concrete mixed with stones in cold places.

Trust me, it will break you and specially break your will to make any hole in them ^^

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#146
post #64
post #43

I've also built a simple and small (99sqm) PassivHaus in Romania, 5 years ago. Everybody, and I mean everybody from family to friends called me nuts, but I've got my payback this winter when the energy prices went trough the roof and I'm just slightly affected. The house is elevated from the ground on 12 concrete columns so that I can insulate under the foundation beams using glass foam, insulation on walls is 30 cm…

It is interesting that you insulate under the house. One of the more intriguing passive house designs I saw was one where the insulation went down 2-3m into the ground all around the house footprint. This trapped the natural ground heat within that area and fed it upwards into the house. It took about 18 months for the ground to warm up, but once it was there, the ground/house warmed itself with virtually no input. T…

> It is interesting that you insulate under the house.

Near our place in the countryside, required foundation depth is 1.4m to protect from frost heave. Use an insulated slab and that requirement goes away. The insulation keeps the heat in the ground. It protects the ground under the house from freezing.

Nobody cares about regulations here, but they do about getting proper foundations...

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "latest"? Hasn't it (almost) always been like this?

Some houses used to be built on nice plots of land with non-shoe-box design, but I would argue that paying 1.5M for a "new" home depot material house on a postage stamp of land that will literally collapse when the particle board that supports the drywall gets wet... is not very good value for money. It happens, youtube has the proof of it sadly!

>>Some houses used to be built on nice plots of land with non-shoe-box design,

Yes, but I feel like even "back then" that was an exception rather than the norm. There is a LOT of very poorly built houses around, and it's not just the problem with modern construction. Modern house prices and scarcity has made it worse, sure, but it feels like "built to the cheapest possible standard" was always a thing.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#148
Location and climate are very big factors when it comes to home insulation.

The South African Highveld for example has an extremely mild climate.

My house has no insulation in the ceilings, single pane windows, double brick walls with no insulation and air vents all over the place to the outside.

The house was built in the 70s I think, using construction methods appropriate for that time. So ot very modern.

I have no climate control in my house. And I don't need any. At the moment I'm considering some ceiling insulation, because in the middle of summer things can get toasty in the evening when the hot roof radiates back into the cool house.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#149
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting that you insulate under the house. One of the more intriguing passive house designs I saw was one where the insulation went down 2-3m into the ground all around the house footprint. This trapped the natural ground heat within that area and fed it upwards into the house. It took about 18 months for the ground to warm up, but once it was there, the ground/house warmed itself with virtually no input. T…

> It is interesting that you insulate under the house. Isn't that pretty normal, I mean maybe not three meters down, but modern foundations are required to be isolated in many places. The legal requirement in Denmark is at least 300mm of isolation under the house.

And that's not a new thing either.

In my 1970's house we have 150mm insulation under the house from the original build, 150mm in the walls and 200mm on the roof.

We added another part to the house a few years ago, and that was 300mm insulation in floor/walls/roof. Since the walls are made of brick with a depth of 7cm, it means the walls are 7+7+30= 44cm thick (plus some "slack")

Even my 1980's summerhouse has 100mm insulation in floor/walls/roof.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#150
> Our designs combine generous ventilation with high insulation (140mm-thick wall framing combined with R4 wall insulation in the North Island – far above the Building Code requirements)

NZ North Island is pretty extreme in its non-extremeness. It's near perfect for building homes that don't need excessive heating and cooling. From a global perspective, 140mm insulated framing is nothing. In any colder climate (such as the nordics) or hotter climate (such as the south US or southern Europe) a comfortable well-insulated wooden frame home needs at least 300mm insulation. That's also the code in e.g. Sweden.

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