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How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

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Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#91

Post by Mromson »

poseva wrote: post #46
LunaSea wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I see, that makes sense. I've always found Passive Haus design interesting although the (expensive) single point of failure that lies in the air pumps scares me a bit.

First of all, if you build a PassivHaus in normal climate (not cold) you will be amazed to see that you do not need a heat pump, you can just use normal electric boiler for hot water and use electric underfloor heating mats for heating, or infrared panels mounted on the roof. On the other side, air-to-air heat pumps have gotten cheaper by the year, you can buy a decent heat pump (NIBE) with about 4500-5000 euros.

Electric boilers are extremely energy inefficient compared with heat pumps. If you built a Passive House, not going the extra mile for a heat pump seems silly to me. Not to mention that heat pumps can easily protect you against heatwaves (should any happen).

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#92

Post by jaclaz »

poseva wrote: post #75
kitd wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting that you insulate under the house. One of the more intriguing passive house designs I saw was one where the insulation went down 2-3m into the ground all around the house footprint. This trapped the natural ground heat within that area and fed it upwards into the house. It took about 18 months for the ground to warm up, but once it was there, the ground/house warmed itself with virtually no input. T…

Really interesting. I've read about also "foundation insulation skirt" that allows you to create a warmer earth mass under the house. To be honest this was the biggest "complaint" that others had in regards of how a built the house, the general knowledge says that the earth is warm and you don't need to insulate against it... but the earth is maybe 5-10 degree, of course warmer than outside -5..-10 but still a lot co…

That depends on how deep you dig, but of course going deep enough has a cost that may be far greater than the kind of insulation you used.

The 20-25% of increase in cost is a good proxi (from my personal experience I would have said 25-30%), but, from an economical standpoint it should be compared with savings over time (in the same region).

To give you an example in Italy, last time I calculated it, this 25-30% increase of costs corresponds - loosely - to the costs of heating for 20 years or so (bar the crazy increases in prices of energy that just happened), so it becomes more a "philosophical" choice than anything else to go for passive or almost passive.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#93

Post by adev_ »

mdp2021 wrote: post #82
mcot2 wrote: post #15

I wish more municipalities would mandate tighter homes with good ventilation. Recently when searching for a new home it was so dishearting to see brand new developments where the homes had standard insulation, bad orientation for things like solar and passive heating and giant fossil fuel based heating systems instead of heat pumps. I decided to instead go the oppostie direction and buy a 1960’s split level that I am…

> with good ventilation Mandate windows?! > heat pumps That means (if I understand you correctly), fans. That is noise pollution - some will not have it, and some will not bear it. And (after experience), heat pumps can be inadequate for heating: they can raise a temperature, not warm the environment.

> That means (if I understand you correctly), fans.

It does not always means fans.

Geothermal or aquathermal heat pumps are fan-less, very silent and performs amazingly in cold climate. I have one home.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#94

Post by perceptronas »

mdp2021 wrote: post #82
mcot2 wrote: post #15

I wish more municipalities would mandate tighter homes with good ventilation. Recently when searching for a new home it was so dishearting to see brand new developments where the homes had standard insulation, bad orientation for things like solar and passive heating and giant fossil fuel based heating systems instead of heat pumps. I decided to instead go the oppostie direction and buy a 1960’s split level that I am…

> with good ventilation Mandate windows?! > heat pumps That means (if I understand you correctly), fans. That is noise pollution - some will not have it, and some will not bear it. And (after experience), heat pumps can be inadequate for heating: they can raise a temperature, not warm the environment.

Windows>

Heat exchangers can be up to 90% effective at saving heat, while window ventilation will be 0%.

Noise pollution>

In my cold climate, whoever goes with heat pumps - they usually go with "air-water" systems. Meaning only outside you have fans and inside you have your typical floor heating.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#95

Post by Mromson »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #62
Mromson wrote: post #11

It saddens me that construction quality is almost irrelevant when building a new building nowadays. The profit difference between a well-isolated passive building and one that merely meets the minimal standards, is often very small, so why bother building a passive building? My personal interest in passive buildings generally revolve around maintenance. Passive houses seem to require far less maintenance.

> It saddens me that construction quality is almost irrelevant when building a new building nowadays. Depends on where you live; houses in the Netherlands are built to high standards when it comes to things like insulation, build quality, electrification, etc. Are houses in the US still built with 2x4's and drywall? You'd think they would move to what we have here in the Netherlands, mostly sturdy concrete blocks, in…

Some countries have comparatively high building standards, but none (that I'm aware of) come close to a Passive House standard.

My gripe isn't as much what the minimum requirement is, and more the incentive to never go above it, because property prices are generally only going up with little regard to building standards.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#96

Post by patrickk »

mdp2021 wrote: post #82
mcot2 wrote: post #15

I wish more municipalities would mandate tighter homes with good ventilation. Recently when searching for a new home it was so dishearting to see brand new developments where the homes had standard insulation, bad orientation for things like solar and passive heating and giant fossil fuel based heating systems instead of heat pumps. I decided to instead go the oppostie direction and buy a 1960’s split level that I am…

> with good ventilation Mandate windows?! > heat pumps That means (if I understand you correctly), fans. That is noise pollution - some will not have it, and some will not bear it. And (after experience), heat pumps can be inadequate for heating: they can raise a temperature, not warm the environment.

Modern air or ground source heat pumps tend to be quiet, even silent, at least according to some deep dives down the Youtube rabbit hole on passive houses. Check out the "Moonstone house" on Youtube for example.

https://youtu.be/sSE8PurhfQs

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#97

Post by [deleted] »

mdp2021 wrote: post #82
mcot2 wrote: post #15

I wish more municipalities would mandate tighter homes with good ventilation. Recently when searching for a new home it was so dishearting to see brand new developments where the homes had standard insulation, bad orientation for things like solar and passive heating and giant fossil fuel based heating systems instead of heat pumps. I decided to instead go the oppostie direction and buy a 1960’s split level that I am…

> with good ventilation Mandate windows?! > heat pumps That means (if I understand you correctly), fans. That is noise pollution - some will not have it, and some will not bear it. And (after experience), heat pumps can be inadequate for heating: they can raise a temperature, not warm the environment.

[deleted]

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#98

Post by eesmith »

darkwater wrote: post #80
mellavora wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not a health condition, might just be the body's set point. There are three biological states: body is cold and needs to warm itself, body temp is right (no effort required), body is hot and needs to cool itself. I was born in hot southern climate, my wife in a cold norther climate. For me, "body is cold" is rather unnatural and uncomfortable. For my wife, "body is hot" is the same. Her internal furnace is alwa…

I'm not 100% sure of this. Totally anecdotal but... I was born and raised in a continental climate, where during winters most day you would stay between -2C and 1C and sometimes you can get -10C during nights. I remember feeling cold but it wasn't that extreme. Then in my twenties I moved to a warmer, near the sea place where a cold winter is when you get 2/3 Celsius degrees in the coldest night and after a few years…

My anecdote is the other way around. I was born in the subtropics, grew up w/o A/C. It never got below freezing.

I moved to a colder climate. The first few years I complained that the summers were never hot enough. I expected and wanted to walk out of an A/C'ed building into a wall of heat and humidity.

Now I'm used the colder weather, and find 15C/60F to be a wonderfully comfortable temperature.

And nowadays I find winter is the only season to visit where I grew up, if I want to feel comfortable.

I figured it wasn't epigenetics or some such, but rather that your body could adapt to it. I remember once when it was -23C/-10F for a week then warmed up to -10C/14F. I rolled the windows down on the car because I felt so warm ... and then I noticed the bank thermometer and was surprised.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#99

Post by lostlogin »

goldcd wrote: post #79
lostlogin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The houses in the article have a lot of wood and decking. New Zealand is savage on exposed timber. I have tried multiple products from expensive to cheap and have the same result on all. A deck which gets rain and faces north west needs re-coating every 6 months to 1 year. The combination of heat, UV and water is just savage.

Have you looked at modified woods like Accoya? (50 year guarantee above ground, 25 in water)

Thanks - I hadn’t.

I haven’t had any degrade to the stage where it needs replacement, I just have to keep maintaining.

I’ll look into it further, the product looks impressive.

Re: How to build homes with virtually no heating (2020)

#100

Post by bjoli »

dt3ft wrote: post #20

I'd love to see them try this in Sweden :)

Two years ago I spent a week in a passive house near Piteå. The outside temperature was -25c and heating the house was done exclusively using an accumulation tank of solar heated water (yes. It worked just fine in -25 if the sun was shining for more than 2 hour a day).

The only problem was that it got too hot when we were making food or running the tumble dryer.

Heating for that house was between 500 and 2000 kwh/yr depending on how much the sun was shining.

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