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Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

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Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#181

Post by heavyset_go »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #97
heavyset_go wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have my three shots, but I'm terrified now that the precident is set that a government can force me to take something that I might not want to. That precedent was already set by the Supreme Court in Jacobson v. Massachusetts in 1905.

It's well known by now that that case specifically addresses a state , not the federal government, and that it was a matter of a fine, not a forced injection.

The OP said "a government" and I'm willing to bet that they also think that a vaccine mandate enforced with a fine is "force", because they seem to think that they're being forced to be vaccinated already.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#182

Post by [deleted] »

mandmandam wrote: post #16
loeg wrote: post #9

If this source is legit — and I’ve never heard of it, so who knows — the headline is missing a pretty significant word: > A fourth COVID-19 booster mRNA vaccine has proven ineffective against Omicron infection

... That's literally the first line of the article. Handy tip: When the article provides its source material and even links to it, it doesn't really matter whether you heard of it before or not. On top of that: "Meanwhile, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) cautioned last week that there was no evidence to back a fourth booster, warning that repeat boosters every four months might actually weaken people’s immune sys…

[deleted]

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#184

Post by tick_tock_tick »

khuey wrote: post #159
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not really how vaccines work. No force fields are deployed, you'll still catch COVID, but, you're immune system is now got some training in how to handle the situation. We do have and continue to make "sterilizing vaccines" which for nearly all common use of the words do "deploy force fields". The small pox vaccine was one of the best examples, the measles vaccine is also up there. The COVID vaccines just ar…

Sterilizing immunity probably wasn't real, and we just didn't have the technology to know better back in the day: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz... Plenty of after-vaccination cases of measles have been documented in modern times. Obviously nobody is going around giving people smallpox to test that one.

> Post-vaccination measles infections, though still uncommon, are much more “regularly observed” than they were once believed to be, Griffin said.

99.99% is close enough for me in terms of a sterilizing immunity.

> Eventually, all discussions about sterilizing immunity become nerdy quibbles over semantics.

I think the article nails it very clearly we have made vaccines that are for all effective purposes sterilizing. Some people might argue over the world choice but our COVID vaccines are not in the same league as these.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#185

Post by javagram »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #164
jimkleiber wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the Lancet article is from Oct 2021, before the omicron variant. I haven't checked your other links, have you found that the perspective has changed in the last few months? Also, I haven't heard, at least in the US, much government pressure for mandatory boosting of all ages, but maybe I'm not reading the same things.

>Also, I haven't heard, at least in the US, much government pressure for mandatory boosting of all ages, but maybe I'm not reading the same things. The largest cities in America, most universities and many of the largest employers all require "boosters" for even minimal participation in society.

NYC is the largest city in America and has no such requirement. I imagine you’re referring to some west coast city or cities?

NYC: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keyton... “ Full Vaccination: People 12 and older participating in the below public indoor activities are now required to show proof they have received two vaccine doses, except for those who have received the one dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Starting January 29, 2022, children ages 5 to 11 must also show proof of full vaccination.”

Washington, DC https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/washington-dc-proof-of-va... “The proof of vaccination must show you’ve received at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine. After Feb. 15, you must be fully vaccinated.”

Boston https://www.boston.gov/departments/mayors-office/introducing... “Tuesday, February 15People age 12+ must show proof of full vaccination”

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#186

Post by nate_meurer »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #128
kittiepryde wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how vaccines work. No force fields are deployed, you'll still catch COVID, but, you're immune system is now got some training in how to handle the situation. I don't remember the promise that, the vaccine would end COVID, I do remember seeing somewhere that if vaccination rates were high enough ( greater than 90%??, been quite awhile now since I read that article ) that herd immunity could be achiev…

> That's not really how vaccines work. No force fields are deployed, you'll still catch COVID, but, you're immune system is now got some training in how to handle the situation. We do have and continue to make "sterilizing vaccines" which for nearly all common use of the words do "deploy force fields". The small pox vaccine was one of the best examples, the measles vaccine is also up there. The COVID vaccines just ar…

No, small pox vaccines were not sterilizing by any definition of the term. There is debate about measles. Otherwise there is only one vaccine in common use that offers durable sterilizing immunity (HPV), and the fact that it works so well is somewhat of a medical mystery.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#187

Post by javagram »

twofornone wrote: post #136
virgulino wrote: post #44

Something is not right. CNN reported the same study, with contradictory quotes from the same doctor: Fourth vaccine dose boosts antibodies, researchers say, but likely not enough to prevent Omicron breakthrough infections http://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_69134b5be555abcb7c1609154ab... --- healthpolicy-watch.news ----- According to Regev-Yochay, the third dose resulted in “much higher antibodies, neutralization and th…

Quoted post unavailable.

> Who could possibly have predicted that a non sterilizing vaccine would put selection pressure on a rapidly mutating coronavirus, right?

Are you referring to the Omicron variant? Current theories suggest that Omicron evolved inside a HIV patient. There is no reason to believe the patient was vaccinated.

Omicron evades the body’s antibodies generated from infection by the delta or alpha or wild type variants, so there’s no plausible case for vaccine “selective pressure” especially as it emerged from a region of the world with very low vaccination rates.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#188

Post by javagram »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #87
Daishiman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how science works: when the facts become updated you update your decisions. Israel has been among the most science-driven governments in Covid policy. I'm not really sure why your "impression" should be mentioned given that you expressly state that you're not a specialist.

Does that mean people who say "the science is settled" are anti-science? What about people who insist they can't be wrong, and science can't be wrong, so you better do what they tell you, in the name of science, or else? Because we have a whole lot of that going on and it is celebrated like a holy edict. Science seems to be in constant flux between infallible religion and "we weren't wrong, the facts just have been u…

> Everyone now knows "two weeks to flatten the curve" means endless abridgement of civil rights.

Strangely despite having access to google I keep seeing this “two weeks” phrasing repeated. Please google news stories from March 2020 and find that the “15 days to flatten the curve” was a Trump Administration policy and scientists immediately pointed out that 15 days would not be enough and could not make the virus disappear[0]. The number was simply a political decision as it was hard for the US President to change from the February 2020 stance of claiming Covid was just a cold and a hoax by their political opponents to hurt the economy…

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-white-house-15-d...

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#190

Post by hffftz »

version_five wrote: post #18

If I understand correctly, israel mandates a third shot (to do normal stuff), as do many places in north america, either now or soon. And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. What I find most frustrating is that politicians are happy to make these mandates live, during an ongoing situation where we actually don't know a lot about how effective things are (and in the c…

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