Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

web.archive.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 108 posts

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#21

Post by rasengan »

Spivak wrote: post #17

This seems way more sensational than “US government tells US company to remove entry from their own servers.”

Not sure where you got that title from.

The actual title is: "US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction" which is virtually the same as the title of the HN thread.

The literal first sentence is:

"THE US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) wants to take down web sites that use the .com and .net top level domains (TLD) regardless of whether their servers are based in the US."

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#22

Post by gnulinux »

Can someone explain me why ICE has the power to enforce intellectual property laws on the internet? What does this have to do with immigration enforcement? Can ICE enforce other seemingly irrelevant laws? E.g. can ICE bust e.g. drug users, prostitution etc?

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#23

Post by Spivak »

rasengan wrote: post #21
Spivak wrote: post #17

This seems way more sensational than “US government tells US company to remove entry from their own servers.”

Not sure where you got that title from. The actual title is: "US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction" which is virtually the same as the title of the HN thread. The literal first sentence is: "THE US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) wants to take down web sites that use the .com and .net top level domains (TLD) regardless of whether their servers are based in the US."

I’m agreeing with you? I’m saying that the HN title “claims jurisdiction over all sites even if outside the US” is way more sensational than the US gov’t telling a US based registrar to remove entries pointing to sites hosted outside the US.

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#24

Post by torstenvl »

gnulinux wrote: post #22

Can someone explain me why ICE has the power to enforce intellectual property laws on the internet? What does this have to do with immigration enforcement? Can ICE enforce other seemingly irrelevant laws? E.g. can ICE bust e.g. drug users, prostitution etc?

Foreign entities engaging in exchanges with the U.S. market via U.S. TLDs implicate U.S. customs enforcement.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement has jurisdiction over customs enforcement.

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#25

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

drubio wrote: post #7

In more recent news, this tech https://handshake.org/ is aimed at this kind of jurisdictional issue. Limiting the reach of a US court or any other central org for that matter at shutting down a domain .com, .net or other.

Thank you for sharing.

> even gnutella became The Pirate Bay.

Never thought about that.

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#26

Post by rasengan »

gnulinux wrote: post #22

Can someone explain me why ICE has the power to enforce intellectual property laws on the internet? What does this have to do with immigration enforcement? Can ICE enforce other seemingly irrelevant laws? E.g. can ICE bust e.g. drug users, prostitution etc?

One of the main reasons that ICE believes they can exert this authority is because the .com/.net TLD namespace is owned and operated by Verisign, a US company. Further, the ICANN namespace is owned and operated by ICANN, a US company who, in fact, is also under the jurisdiction of attorney generals of California state [1].

As long as the namespace remains under the control of a centralized authority like the US, this will continue to be a reality. There may be some naysayers about solutions like Handshake, but frankly speaking, there's no person who would logically want their name to be able to be taken away by someone else. Your name is your identity and it is you. To be able to assert this with cryptography is a cypherpunk's dream.

[1] https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/heels-ag-becerra-lett...

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#27

Post by jiveturkey »

walrus01 wrote: post #14
drubio wrote: post #7

In more recent news, this tech https://handshake.org/ is aimed at this kind of jurisdictional issue. Limiting the reach of a US court or any other central org for that matter at shutting down a domain .com, .net or other.

yet another alternate root DNS that has maybe 0.001% of install base on the global scale of client devices with browsers? yeah okay seen it for 20 years now...

wow, that's generous. more like 1x10-12, if that

.001% would be absolutely enormous, and the actual start of a thing.

the design and use case of it looks laughable to me. however, it does spark the imagination.

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#28

Post by jhbadger »

torstenvl wrote: post #24
gnulinux wrote: post #22

Can someone explain me why ICE has the power to enforce intellectual property laws on the internet? What does this have to do with immigration enforcement? Can ICE enforce other seemingly irrelevant laws? E.g. can ICE bust e.g. drug users, prostitution etc?

Foreign entities engaging in exchanges with the U.S. market via U.S. TLDs implicate U.S. customs enforcement. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has jurisdiction over customs enforcement.

I suspect that even the majority of Americans don't know that ICE handles customs as news stories rarely expand the acronym and the stories almost always deal with the immigration side of things.

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#29

Post by mbg721 »

jhbadger wrote: post #28
torstenvl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign entities engaging in exchanges with the U.S. market via U.S. TLDs implicate U.S. customs enforcement. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has jurisdiction over customs enforcement.

I suspect that even the majority of Americans don't know that ICE handles customs as news stories rarely expand the acronym and the stories almost always deal with the immigration side of things.

No post body was provided.

Re: US claims jurisdiction over all .com/.net sites even if outside the US (2011)

#30

Post by rasengan »

jedberg wrote: post #20
drubio wrote: post #7

In more recent news, this tech https://handshake.org/ is aimed at this kind of jurisdictional issue. Limiting the reach of a US court or any other central org for that matter at shutting down a domain .com, .net or other.

The only way an alternate TLD registrar will ever take off is if you get the people who own the current root servers on board. And the only way that will happen is if you figure out how they can make money from owning and operating the root servers. My guess is that if you create a blockchain for registering DNS, and only the current registrars can issue coins on said blockchain, you might have a solution they would…

Those servers are only necessary for the ICANN tlds and those will continue to act as they do today, even in a Handshake future.

With Handshake, you run your own authoritative server (or use a hosted one) for your own name and that authoritative server's information will be obtainable on chain. No middle-man, no rent seeking.

Post reply on HN