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> The only people I know who've gotten COVID have all been vaxd.
So you didn’t know (or know someone that knows) anyone that got Covid before the vaccines started to be administered?
Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
81–90 of 272 posts
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#82> the amount of antibodies returns to the level it was after the third vaccine, not more. It’s nice, but it’s not what we expect from a booster So basically it doesn’t confer any long term benefits - the only value from it would be if you want to keep your circulating antibodies high by perpetually boosting on a regular interval.
It remains to be seen over the long-run whether antibody levels correlate inversely with either risk of: a) _any_ Covid infection or b) _severe_ Covid infection. Antibody levels are often cited as prediction surrogates early on because they are easy to measure. Occurrence or recurrence of infection, irrespective of antibody levels, of course, takes time. Also remaining to be seen is the role of T-cell mediated immuni…
We already know that T-cell immunity has a major role in reducing the severity of COVID-19. There is no real question about that. Antibody levels are transient and comparatively less important.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#83If I understand correctly, israel mandates a third shot (to do normal stuff), as do many places in north america, either now or soon. And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. What I find most frustrating is that politicians are happy to make these mandates live, during an ongoing situation where we actually don't know a lot about how effective things are (and in the c…
> and in the case of the latest variant, we know they are not effective I assume you are talking about stopping spread, which could be accurate. I further assume you are not referring to reducing illness severity, because they obviously are effective at that. But that benefit extends beyond the individual insofar as it reduces strain on the overall healthcare system -- ensuring that even those who have injuries or il…
To put this in perspective, the unvaccinated are 400% more likely to catch COVID than the vaccinated, and they're 1,200% more like to die from COVID than the vaccinated[1].
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#84We really need to get people from countries that don’t have the resources to buy up all the supply vaccinated. It will help the richer countries, too, if variants aren’t mutated there.
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Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). Their research is now indicat…
> I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). You are misinformed. There is a paucity of data supporting boosters, what little exists is for people over 65 (to be fai…
The article was posted in September. Since then all analysis has validated the booster strategy, even in individuals who previously had COVID. The increase in incidence in pediatric COVID patients since the Omicron wave supports the assertion as well.
I'm sorry but new meta-analyses are coming up every week. It's been 4 months since that article and the conclusions in said opinion piece have been proven wrong.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it can definitely be stated that having weekly decisions about something as serious and possibly long-lasting as vaccinations are a bad omen. Especially if we consider possible adverse effects in children we should instead opt for partial lockdowns at least temporarily to stem the wave
Not quite sure about this, lockdowns are having profound psychological implications, especially on the young ones. A child can't be expected to sit in a zoom session all day, it's simply not possible.
Source?
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#87I am living in Israel, i doubt that it is possible to state anything definitively on the subject: regulations and decissions are being changed on a daily basis. I am not a healthcare specialist, however all this is giving the impression of being one big mess...
That's how science works: when the facts become updated you update your decisions. Israel has been among the most science-driven governments in Covid policy. I'm not really sure why your "impression" should be mentioned given that you expressly state that you're not a specialist.
Does that mean people who say "the science is settled" are anti-science? What about people who insist they can't be wrong, and science can't be wrong, so you better do what they tell you, in the name of science, or else? Because we have a whole lot of that going on and it is celebrated like a holy edict. Science seems to be in constant flux between infallible religion and "we weren't wrong, the facts just have been updated". How you do you know today's fact of day won't be tomorrow's fact in need of being updated? When it comes to using government force and using infallible science to require people to give up their choice in the matter, maybe a bit more introspection and humility is in order and a lot less endless gaslighting and dictatorial commanding.
Remember, this won't be the last global pandemic, but it is the last one where science has any credibility. The next pandemic hopefully is as mild as this one because you'll never see this level of cooperation with the government and medical establishment ever again. Everyone now knows "two weeks to flatten the curve" means endless abridgement of civil rights. When that happens, remember that it was the actions during this pandemic that lead to the end of societal trust and cooperation.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). Their research is now indicat…
> I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). You are misinformed. There is a paucity of data supporting boosters, what little exists is for people over 65 (to be fai…
I see the Lancet article is from Oct 2021, before the omicron variant. I haven't checked your other links, have you found that the perspective has changed in the last few months? Also, I haven't heard, at least in the US, much government pressure for mandatory boosting of all ages, but maybe I'm not reading the same things.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are sadly wrong. Corona policy in the early days quickly became inextricably enmeshed in political rivalries, electioneering and knee- jerk reactions. When you say "science driven" i think you really meant "stricter regulations". It is a fatal error to conflate the two.
Yes, there's a lot of baggage left over with a lot of regulations that were made at the beginning and which don't make much sense now. It annoys me. It's not the end of the world, and much in the same way that we had vaccine passports and quarantines throughout history when diseases came and went, once we get over with this I trust we work to get rid of the baggage.
Just like we got rid of the Patriot Act and all of its tag alongs?
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#90How many goes at vaccine whackamole results in the immune system being much worse off and/or side effect incidence exceeds the incidence of the original virus's problems?
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