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Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

ergo.human.cornell.edu

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Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#91

Post by niels_olson »

raldi wrote: post #78

I don't get it: the actual study (which they even link to) appears to draw the exact opposite conclusion: http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/Pub/HFlabReports/EHARep0904.pd... See page 29 especially, and the graphs starting on page 19.

In addition to poo-pooing their own study, as a physician, I was concerned about the statement that atherosclerotic disease increased 9 times in standing. here's that study. The reality is in the Tables 2 and 3: it only comes out as a factor if you already have the disease, even after controlling for physical labor, psychosocial factors, income, behavior, and biology, standing is unrelated.

http://www.sjweh.fi/download.php?abstract_id=536&file_nr...

Basically, I don't think this would change my advice to a patient one way or another, and my default advise is "stand more, walk more, please do something besides sit on your butt all day."

For patients with symptomatic atherosclerosis, their beds are made already.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#92

Post by pointyhat »

RegEx wrote: post #89
zck wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been studies done -- I can't find any on a quick search -- that show that changing a working habit makes them more productive. Then it tails off. Change the habit back, and they get another burst of productivity. So you may be right, and it's just because it's new. Or it may work for you.

So this is why I find myself cycling between 5 different "productivity apps"

I cycle between 0 - makes me more productive :)

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#93

Post by niels_olson »

cbr wrote: post #45
PakG1 wrote: post #30

I dislike it when articles make bizarre statements and take it for granted that the audience should accept it. Like: But, standing to work has long known to be problematic, it is more tiring, it dramatically increases the risks of carotid atherosclerosis (ninefold) because of the additional load on the circulatory system, and it also increases the risks of varicose veins, so standing all day is unhealthy. Where do th…

""" Significant relationships were found between the amount of standing at work and atherosclerotic progression. After adjustment for the heaviness of the work, psychosocial job factors, income, and biological and behavioral risk factors, the mean change in maximum IMT for those standing not at all, a little, a lot, and very much was 0.24, 0.25, 0.28, and 0.33 mm, respectively. For men with IHD the respective changes…

> The idea is that thicker artery walls are associated with heart disease, right?

Right, except, if you've every scrubbed in for a carotid endarterectomy, the culprit is a lesion full of cholesterol and inflammation, not a diffuse thickening.

> Is there reason to believe the relationship is linear?

Well, yes and no. Things that cause atherosclerosis tend to have linear relationships with the disease. So if you find a new relationship, you expect it to be linear. Problem is, their analysis has to pile on a lot of other stuff before you find a relationship. And "Have the disease" is a pretty big step function compared to the other things they control for. Notice also that N goes way down in those severe subgroup analyses (tables 2 and 3)

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#94

Post by miek »

StavrosK wrote: post #62
AlexC04 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too thought he was being sarcastic, but then I noticed there was a complete lack of smilies and rejected the notion as absurd.

Wait, so, is that comment sarcastic? It has no smileys...

This group collectively gave me the only vocal chuckle I've had today. Thanks :)

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#95

Post by starpilot »

Tharkun wrote: post #42
redthrowaway wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without any evidence supporting its benefits, the kneeling chair is little more than another fad in cubicle ergonomics. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe the things that are good for you are the things that make you feel good. Lying on a comfortable, supportive mattress is good for you. Sitting in a good chair at your desk is good for you. Walking, and other, more vigorous exercises are good for you. Kneeling in a…

What gives you the impression that lying on a comfortable mattress is good for you? Comfortable and supportive aren't always the same thing, and neither one is particularly "good for you". Mattresses are really hard to get right. It depends on the shape of your spine, your weight, whether or not you have back problems (and which), and personal preference. There are trade-offs involved. If you find evidence so importa…

There's a barefoot running movement stemming from research apparently indicating cushiony running sneakers leading to less healthy feet than running barefoot. Maybe the same could be true of bedding. Many Japanese today still sleep on thick cotton-stuffed pads laid on the floor, which is vastly firmer than most spring/foam mattresses.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#96

Post by r00fus »

redthrowaway wrote: post #12
saturdaysaint wrote: post #8

I highly recommend kneeling chairs. You sit with your legs underneath you instead of in front of you, which puts your back at a much more natural angle (much like standing, actually) than a standard office chair. They're cheap (mine was $75) and very compact, so you can augment them with a "normaller" chair. Long hours in a kneeling chair can strain certain muscles (the small of my back gets a little tight), so I do…

Without any evidence supporting its benefits, the kneeling chair is little more than another fad in cubicle ergonomics. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe the things that are good for you are the things that make you feel good. Lying on a comfortable, supportive mattress is good for you. Sitting in a good chair at your desk is good for you. Walking, and other, more vigorous exercises are good for you. Kneeling in a…

This is only an anecdote, but my parents replaced our office chair with a kneeling chair when I was a kid to keep me from monopolizing the family computer.

Not only did their plan fail, I found that I could sit for hours in that chair where in other "office" chairs I was highly uncomfortable after 30 min.

Also studies and other's anecdotes are worth a pittance compared to rigorous experimentation on your own part as everyone's body reacts differently. I can't count the number of times my experience has run counter to "accepted wisdom".

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#97

Post by r00fus »

aptwebapps wrote: post #20
buff-a wrote: post #17

Its a shame they didn't discuss walking beyond "it makes it difficult to type". Question: if I can figure out how to type while walking, will that give me the benefits of standing while avoiding the negatives?

I used to want a chording, one-handed keyboard with a strap. I thought that that combined with a PDA (this was a few years ago) would be great for walking and working. But I probably would have walked in front of a bus so it is just as well I never had one.

Walking on a pedestrian trail in a park or the woods would greatly reduce your likelyhood of being hit by a vehicle... it would also be highly rejuvenating (nature is relaxing to most folks).

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#98

Post by r00fus »

buff-a wrote: post #17

Its a shame they didn't discuss walking beyond "it makes it difficult to type". Question: if I can figure out how to type while walking, will that give me the benefits of standing while avoiding the negatives?

It's too bad there is no decent way to use speech recognition to translate voice into code.

I often find myself using transcription while driving to send long emails for example... I'll dictate stream of consciousness while driving, including the um and ahhs, then when I get in, the email will just need editing to send.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#99

Post by cpeterso »

jacobian wrote: post #55
pointyhat wrote: post #13

I never quite understood the appeal of standing up all day. Having done a couple of jobs in my youth which involved standing up all day and spending 2 hours a day on a train standing up, I couldn't think of anything less appealing. I love my Aeron and so does my arse.

Over the last couple of years I've been having a couple of problems at work: increasing lower back pain and decreasing attention span. I had no reason to assume either had anything to do with my desk: I, too, rock the Aeron and think it's comfy as heck. I've got my keyboard and monitor at the right height. I take breaks every 30-60 minutes and go walk around. Etc. But as the back pain kept getting worse, I finally de…

Are you standing while posting on HN now? ;)

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#100

Post by cpeterso »

Goladus wrote: post #65

I wonder if they considered at all the effects of lying down? When I work from home, I love being able to take lie flat on the floor for a bit and rest my back AND legs for a short period.

You need a ceiling-mounted computer screen (though a ceiling projection might be safer). That might actually work at home, but it would be a little freaky if everyone worked laying down at the office. :)
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