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An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

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Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#341

Post by bogomipz »

benreesman wrote: post #94

Eh 20-ish years ago the shit happening on Island and Archipelago would blow most people’s minds. Undocumented, conditional, non-displayed order types. Routine wash trading. Shear-but-don’t skin multi-venue arbitrage. The ECNs were the Wild West. Smoke-filled dark pools. Island and Arca are NASDAQ and NYSE now. But Ben, US equities have intrinsic value unlike this BTC garbage! Well unless they pay no dividend, have du…

Might you or someone else explain what these things and how they are used/exploited?

> Undocumented, conditional, non-displayed order types. Routine wash trading. Shear-but-don’t skin multi-venue arbitrage.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#342

Post by H8crilA »

solveit wrote: post #281
kaashif wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well unless they pay no dividend, have dual-class share structure, and IPO without a profitable quarter. What’s a share of SNAP entitle you to exactly? Ah right, you think someone will buy it for more. I think the idea would be like what happened to Apple: they eventually grew so much, became so successful, accumulated huge piles of cash bigger than they could possibly spend, that they had to start paying a dividen…

> they eventually grew so much, became so successful, accumulated huge piles of cash bigger than they could possibly spend, that they had to start paying a dividend. What mechanism forces this?

The board of directors.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#343

Post by SavantIdiot »

notch656a wrote: post #140
dmw_ng wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looming rate hikes combined with ever increasing correlation of Bitcoin to equities suggests you may even get your day this year.

It's sad to see people genuinely wanting to watch others lose wealth so they can relish in it.

Come off it. Everyone loves to watch a loudmouth fail [1], regardless of what they are bragging about.

[1] Except maybe Buddhists and the elderly.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#344

Post by mthoms »

mbesto wrote: post #232
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, I think, and you make a good point; there's big players who bet on it going down, there's big players that bet on it going up. In a perfect world, their intents would cancel each other out.

PS - I'm an investor in a fund that trades on it both going up and down (i.e. volatility).

How does one find such a fund?

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#345

Post by wickoff »

iakh wrote: post #213
VHRanger wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dont have a risk of divergence loss if you're simultaneously buying and selling the same product in the same order book. Bid/ask spreads were as wide as double or triple digits during the liquidation event. At this point the only limit to riskless profits is your liquidity and the speed at which you can execute.

Market makers can't just conjure up a counterparty. The spread widens because lack a liquidity increases directional risk. If it were truly riskless, others would jump in to close the spread.

This is exactly what market makers do. During violent moves prices vary wildly between exchanges and market makers become takers. They instantly buy and sell the same amounts on different exchanges without risk, then re-balance their accounts.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#346

Post by eric_cc »

01acheru wrote: post #263
eric_cc wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advantage for $USD is already beginning to vanish. Assuming it does, are there any other reasons to be bullish $USD?

First of all I’m not seeing this advantage “beginning to vanish”. Even assuming it completely disappears we still need to solve: - energy inefficiency of BTC - extremely low number of transactions per unit of time - a currency lacking the possibility of reversing transfers is not compatible with most legal systems - full traceability of my wallet transactions open to the public - volatility And those are the first I…

Okay but the question was: what’s the bull case for $USD?

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#347

Post by eric_cc »

Daishiman wrote: post #305
felipeko wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a good thing to be encouraged to saving instead of spending. No one needs incentive to spend. You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there.

There is no modern economic argument to favor saving over spending. What you're saying runs counter to pretty much all economic theory from any ideological camp you could think of.

Just because an argument is not popular does not indicate it is false.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#348

Post by catillac »

eric_cc wrote: post #252
catillac wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t seem obvious that people who didn’t put money into cryptocurrencies were wrong. Even if you happened to through sheer luck buy low, sell high during one of the pops, that doesn’t mean everyone else was wrong any more than saying someone else was wrong for not playing roulette and selecting the right ending slot.

Your “buy low sell high” take is pretty short-sighted. For many, it’s a change in currency from fiat to digital. You on-ramp in but you don’t back out into fiat. You're speaking about a subset of crypto traders that go right back to fiat.

I assumed making money was your metric, but if the metric is “change in currency from fiat to digital” I would argue that after nearly fifteen years of little adoption for mainstream, lack of ability to use cryptocurrency for anything but black market goods and super niche products, and what seems like an utter chaotic ecosystem dominated by con artists, cryptocurrencies are a pretty abject failure on that metric as well.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#349

Post by 01acheru »

fleddr wrote: post #330
Daishiman wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no modern economic argument to favor saving over spending. What you're saying runs counter to pretty much all economic theory from any ideological camp you could think of.

Economic theory has run this world into the ground in just a single human lifetime. A system that maximizes consumption is insane.

Do you mean that if we had some renaissance banks during the 19xx until 2022, gold coins instead of our modern currencies, no stock exchanges, no financial whatever and maybe all retro economical entities you can think of… would we be in a different position?

You cannot blame the theory, you cannot blame the system… we have a saying in Italy: opportunity makes the thief. Blame the people, not abstract entities.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#350

Post by eric_cc »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #257
eric_cc wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a short term advantage that is quickly evaporating. There are crypto credit cards now that allow you to achieve the same effect. Assuming this advantage disappears, are there any other bull cases for $USD?

I don't want a currency with a bull case. That means it discourages spending it in favor of holding it. I want a currency with an extremely slow bear case. Also my value of USD hasn't dropped 30% in the last month.

BTC didn’t drop in value did it?

1 BTC is worth 1 BTC.

The fed manipulating the USD and affecting the trading pair of USD/BTC is probably what you’re referring to.

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