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An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

singlelunch.com

291–300 of 454 posts

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things can be true at the same time. Power systems do tend to work for the powerful. But that doesn't mean they can't also be valuable to everybody. Or even valuable to the average person much more than the powerful person. Look, for example, at food regulation. Anybody who has worked in a restaurant can tell you a) how important food safety is, and b) how much health department regulations contribute to keeping…

It seems pretty hard to me to look at charts of inflation, income inequality, and quantitative easing and compare them to stock market values and not see how the system is allowing the rich and powerful to use inflation to suck money away from everyone not heavily in the market (especially the poor as inflation is a highly regressive tax) and into their own pockets through increases in valuation. And then look at the…

> ...the system is allowing the rich and powerful to use inflation to suck money away from everyone not heavily in the market (especially the poor as inflation is a highly regressive tax) and into their own pockets through increases in valuation.

It's not that simple. You're talking like poor people are debt-free and keep jealously-guarded meager savings in cash. However, chances are they have far more debt than assets and no savings whatsoever, so inflation doesn't hurt them (so long as their wages keep up) and may even help them.

I'm not sure if this actually applies to you, but your comment reads a bit like cherry-picking in the name of some ideological fixation (e.g. crypto/gold bug opposition to the idea of inflation. leading to attempts to paint inflation as the worst thing ever).

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#292
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats like, your opinion bro. In all seriousness I am ok with crypto punishing gamblers, eventually people will learn to stay away from it, or be forced to stay away from it because they have nothing left to gamble. I don't see how this is more morally repugnant than casinos which are legally accessible in most of the US.

It's more morally repugnant because it's much less transparent. Casinos are exploitative misery factories and I'd be happy to see them vanish forever. But they're at least carefully regulated to exploit people at an agreed-upon level and with all the rules known beforehand.

Personally I am ok with both crypto and Casinos existing, just because some people are stupid doesn't mean i should have my freedoms restricted. Stupid Should Hurt.

As an aside crypto has the potential to change the world for the better if it ever becomes used as a real currency. I think the people that stand to lose in that situation love spreading FUD about crypto. However it is probably not bitcoin that is going to become that imho, but rather some POS coin.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#293
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats like, your opinion bro. In all seriousness I am ok with crypto punishing gamblers, eventually people will learn to stay away from it, or be forced to stay away from it because they have nothing left to gamble. I don't see how this is more morally repugnant than casinos which are legally accessible in most of the US.

It's more morally repugnant because it's much less transparent. Casinos are exploitative misery factories and I'd be happy to see them vanish forever. But they're at least carefully regulated to exploit people at an agreed-upon level and with all the rules known beforehand.

If I play slot machines I know I lose money. But at least I know the return isn't absolutely horrible. Usually around 90%... Same applies to many casino games if played sensibly.

The lotteries and scratch tickets are the truly horrible crap. Return is absolutely abysmal with them...

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want a currency with a bull case. That means it discourages spending it in favor of holding it. I want a currency with an extremely slow bear case. Also my value of USD hasn't dropped 30% in the last month.

It is a good thing to be encouraged to saving instead of spending. No one needs incentive to spend. You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there.

> You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there.

That’s some pretty fanta-dreamy-economics. How can it possibly be true for everybody? Money from heaven?

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#295
I’ve spent a lot of time, made a lot of manual trades, and lost a lot of money on crypto futures in the last three months.

I’ve learned some things…

One is that the order books are virtually meaningless, at least for humans. They change so rapidly, bulking or vanishing, that you cannot gain any sense of what the market wants or is doing.

I’ve also seen strings of tiny trades, apparently strategically timed with order book cancellations, causing big price changes on almost no volume.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#296

There's a hype cycle right now with the claim that Walmart is going to issue NFTs, or get into cryptocurrencies, or something.[1] Walmart is not saying that. They filed for a trademark for "WALMART" for the trademark class that includes cryptocurrencies. Which means only that WalMart, Inc. spent $400 to protect their brand name from someone creating "WalMartCoin". WalMart, asked for a statement, said they had no imme…

That seems like very cheap insurance... Even the legal filings to fight someone launching WalMartCoin are more...

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#297

Bitcoin (and friends) is essentially a pyramid (edit: ponzai) scheme, where late entrants pay the 'returns' on early entrants - but with a technology layer that precisely and and publicly records each payin/payout. In a way it is beautiful - the fraud is so transparent, and so technologically guaranteed to be transparent, that it becomes legitimised. Almost as if robbing a bank would be ok if you made an appointment…

By that logic, any marketplace is a pyramid scheme because later entrants always pay earlier entrants. A pyramid scheme has a very particular definition, please look it up.

Sorry, I meant ponzai scheme.

Marketplaces are where things with inherent value are exchanged. Crypto has zero inherent value - it serves only as a record of previous players in the scheme.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#298
post #9

Curious - does anyone not think Bitcoin or any other cypto coin is being manipulated?

Is it illegal to manipulate crypto? If so, then how many people have been prosecuted for manipulating crypto?

I think all of it is manipulated at a scale never before seen.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#299
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look forward to seeing your math on that. But for a fair comparison you can't just look at "casinos to date" and "Bitcoin to date". After all, as Bitcoin proponents never tire of telling us, this is supposedly the early days.

Some of the most expensive casinos (just the building) to build are: Venetian Macau – $2.4 billion, Wynn Las Vegas – $2.7 billion, Resorts World Sentosa – $4.53 billion, Marina Bay Sands – $5.36 billion, CityCenter Las Vegas – $9 billion. That already likely costs more than the combined electricity used by Bitcoin so far, if it doesn't you can easily reach trillions by combining the costs of just Casino buildings. Mo…

> you can easily reach trillions by combining the costs of just Casino buildings.

I have my doubts about this.

BTC energy cost was in the realm of 10 billion/year this year, and increasing quickly year over year. That's from around 150 TW hours, or around 5x Nevada's consumption.

The hash rate this year averaged around 140 million THash/sec. It appears that efficient equipment costs about 10k per 100THash/sec. So you're looking at another 14 billion in currently running hardware, conservatively, not to mention the price of the buildings those Asics need to be put in.

There's another big flaw here, which is that cost isn't just reflective of consumption but of demand. The same hotel building on the Vegas strip is a lot more expensive than if you built it in rural Idaho, and BTC has the advantage of being able to use the cheapest land and electricity.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#300

There's a hype cycle right now with the claim that Walmart is going to issue NFTs, or get into cryptocurrencies, or something.[1] Walmart is not saying that. They filed for a trademark for "WALMART" for the trademark class that includes cryptocurrencies. Which means only that WalMart, Inc. spent $400 to protect their brand name from someone creating "WalMartCoin". WalMart, asked for a statement, said they had no imme…

Reminds me of the whole market-moving news cycle about Amazon accepting cryptocurrency “by the end of the year” last year. Tons of coverage, like this[1]. It never passed the smell test, all traced back to one anonymous City A.M. source, and of course it didn't happen.

[1] https://gizmodo.com/amazon-to-accept-bitcoin-by-end-of-2021-...

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