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€2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

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Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#341
post #309
post #30

My favorite part of this story is that they DAO has actually raised ~$8m, spent $3m on the book (10x the expected auction price), then the "core team" has started paying themselves ~$30k a month[0]. Also, how is this "decentralised" when one person owns over 50% of the voting token? [0] https://snapshot.org/#/dunedao.eth/proposal/0x2038fc240d0e85...

It's either teenagers or money laundering. Funny how it could be either. Has anyone checked if the seller is legit? Maybe the profit was meant to be split once the item "sold".

[deleted]

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#342
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last ten years there has been a significant change in mainstream content from information (what) to personalities (who). A major driver has been the adoption of social media by the mainstream: Uncle Bob pawing his cell phone while on the toilet. Both closed circle SM (checking on your friends and acquaintances) and public facing SM (checking the influencers) have created a whole new, uncontrolled feeding groun…

> Both closed circle SM (checking on your friends and acquaintances) and public facing SM (checking the influencers) It's even worse than that because of the algorithms. They show you more of what they think you like, but the bubbles are quite narrow. For example, suppose you want to see what's going on with all the vaccine skepticism. There is a bubble centered around Joe Rogan. They're talking about how the existin…

> One of the most self-perpetuating ones is the myth that "misinformation" is caused by not banning "bad" people, when it's actually caused by not exposing everyone to contrary viewpoints so that they lose the opportunity to have their mistakes corrected.

I'd argue that it's really two sides of the same coin. Take a social graph where nodes are people. It's not that eliminating bad nodes is a good solution, it's just that when you eliminate the dangerously influential bad nodes (the bad ones with a disproportionate amount of connections), it can have the effect of redistributing interactions more evenly in the graph, which means any given node is more likely to be exposed to a greater variety of nodes.

Ideally, we wouldn't have to eliminate any bad nodes, but that would require a stable graph where bad nodes don't attract more and more connections. Which I believe is an alternative formulation of your comment about the need to regulate algorithms.

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#343
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last ten years there has been a significant change in mainstream content from information (what) to personalities (who). A major driver has been the adoption of social media by the mainstream: Uncle Bob pawing his cell phone while on the toilet. Both closed circle SM (checking on your friends and acquaintances) and public facing SM (checking the influencers) have created a whole new, uncontrolled feeding groun…

> Whether it's about wealth, ideologies or any other aspect of lifestyle: Suddenly it's right there, dangled in front of them. And for what it's worth, what is considered "luxury" has become more and more accessible/affordable or is not a status symbol any more: 7-series BMW models can be leased for ~800€ a month, luxury watches have fallen out of fashion, expensive clothing items can be rented or you just go for the…

That's luxury brands moving downmarket to cash in. I've seen a lot more Maseratis out in my part of the 'burbs than before. We're not the rich 'burbs or area of the city, but deeply middle-class, and I'm quite certain that hasn't changed. I suspect instead that brand has moved down-market.

Some try to ride the line and do both. Create an overpriced line that's maybe less well-made than the "real" ones, and slap your brand name all over it because some segments of society think advertising the right brand names and lots of fake gold and such are what rich people like, and they want to be like them while prominently advertising that they can afford "luxury". Then you sell them in different stores from where you sell your actually-luxury goods. A Gucci bag with the most prominent design element being "Gucci" tiled all over it isn't actually a luxury item. "Big pony" Ralph Lauren isn't even luxury-adjacent like the mainline brand is (or, at least, has been), it's trashy as hell—but they produce them for a reason, and in some stores that's nearly all they have. That's a signal of the kind of store you're in and who they're selling to, not a sign that luxury has become more accessible.

None of this is "luxury" becoming more affordable.

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it is simply a group of people who love jodos vision for dune. the idea of a film as a guiding prophet, visions of a flowing creative universe. and we want to play with that. so we raised a bunch of funds and bought a cool book. now we are making an animation. we've been discussing ideas like sending funds to the makers of Jodorowskys Dune documentary which didnt even break even, as a way of thanking them to…

> so we raised a bunch of funds and bought a cool book. For about 100x its estimated value. I'm not sure that's really playing with a hacker mentality. The plan is also to burn the "cool book". Again, I'm unsure how that fits into a hacker mindset.

I think playing with money systems, ideas of value etc is interesting. The average contribution was about $50 - so like a kickstarter for a fan club.

and no, the plan is not to burn the book. there is an ongoing joke by a few people in the dao. but they do not represent the majority and the aims of the dao explicitly are to do with the preservation and protection of the book. so thats not going to happen.

but people arent actually interested in conversation here. hn hates crypto. we get it. people hating something they arent a part of and dont understand. But we are still going to have fun and make things, and the good vibes win in the end.

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#345
Apparently this is a copy of the storyboards for a failed Dune movie adaptation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky%27s_Dune. Apparently a lot of famous artists were involved.

This site has scans/photos of most of the content: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNGBuasYa_WETf7sF6Q9W3S... (from https://www.muddycolors.com/2020/03/moebius-dune/).

Apparently it envisioned Gurney Halleck as a dwarf: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNGBuasYa_WETf7sF6Q9W3S...

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#346
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A handful of words can be copyrightable. The idea of copyrighted content being stored on a blockchain that thousands of nodes duplicate and offer freely is an interesting conundrum that your reply entirely sidesteps. I’m guessing it has happened already but I too am interested in the legal implications of this.

Legally it's not complicated: is it a copy? Is it permitted by the copyright owner? No? Then it's an infringing copy. Actually doing something about it is a problem, as shown throughout the post-Napster era, but every node that serves an infringing copy is potentially liable.

I'd add a number of additional complications.

* Is the material copyrightable? A novel is copyrightable, but a recipe is not. The layout format of a telephone book is copyrightable, but the contents of it are not.

* Is the copyright still in effect? Unfortunately, this is a less relevant question now, as anything written within living memory is under copyright, but it is still a required step.

* Is permission from the copyright holder required? If I am sold a copy of a computer program, I'm allowed to make whatever copies are necessary (e.g. copying from the hard drive to RAM) that are necessary to execute the program, without the permission of the copyright holder.

* What is being done with the copy? If I buy a work, the copyright owner has no right to prevent me from selling it, nor are they entitled to any portion of the proceeds. Re-sale of authorized copies, regardless of permission, are not infringements.

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#347

I made the mistake of diving a bit deeper into the group who bought it and found a proposal where they are talking about literally burning the book they just bought after digitizing it for … reasons I guess [0] At this point I just hope its some sort of practical joke or whatever because this just seems a bit much. [0] https://forum.spicedao.xyz/t/nft-of-the-book-w-proof-of-jpeg...

That's pretty insane. Oddly enough - the process in a library for digitising a copy of a book can be fairly destructive, as far as I understood from those doing it (at CUDL). The spine is chopped off, to make it easier to put it into a machine for scanning all the pages. The digital images can (should?) then be stored in a format that allows zooming, for example : https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-03967/1

> Oddly enough - the process in a library for digitising a copy of a book can be fairly destructive, as far as I understood from those doing it (at CUDL). The spine is chopped off, to make it easier to put it into a machine for scanning all the pages.

I don't think it necessarily has to be that way. I recall seeing a photo or video of a book-scanner that would project laser grid-lines onto the book, to non-destructively correct for the deformations caused by the binding in software.

Edit: not sure if this is the one, but it shows the concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ccxwNssmo

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#348
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last ten years there has been a significant change in mainstream content from information (what) to personalities (who). A major driver has been the adoption of social media by the mainstream: Uncle Bob pawing his cell phone while on the toilet. Both closed circle SM (checking on your friends and acquaintances) and public facing SM (checking the influencers) have created a whole new, uncontrolled feeding groun…

> Both closed circle SM (checking on your friends and acquaintances) and public facing SM (checking the influencers) It's even worse than that because of the algorithms. They show you more of what they think you like, but the bubbles are quite narrow. For example, suppose you want to see what's going on with all the vaccine skepticism. There is a bubble centered around Joe Rogan. They're talking about how the existin…

>or that Julian Assange reports to Putin

Ah...this has been debunked?

The story so far as I know is that "multiple US intelligence agencies" told Congress that (in 2016) people working for the Russian government hacked the DNC and provided the emails to Wikileaks.

Wikileaks didn't reveal its source, but Assange said "no, nope, it definitely wasn't the Russian government, no way".

Mueller proceeded to indict a lot of Russians who allegedly were involved.

Where/what was the debunking?

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so we raised a bunch of funds and bought a cool book. For about 100x its estimated value. I'm not sure that's really playing with a hacker mentality. The plan is also to burn the "cool book". Again, I'm unsure how that fits into a hacker mindset.

I think playing with money systems, ideas of value etc is interesting. The average contribution was about $50 - so like a kickstarter for a fan club. and no, the plan is not to burn the book. there is an ongoing joke by a few people in the dao. but they do not represent the majority and the aims of the dao explicitly are to do with the preservation and protection of the book. so thats not going to happen. but people…

Sure, I guess overpaying by 2 orders of magnitude is playing with money systems.

Do enjoy your exploration into copyright and IP law.

Re: €2.6M spent for a book at auction, believed they would own the IP

#350
post #158

For most of human history, people have lived in small, local information bubbles which were hard to penetrate with facts from the outside world. We see this manifest as the pre-industrial global patchwork of weird and wonderful religious/spiritual/cultural variety. Then somehow the world started to join up and information began to seep into local cultures and sweep away a lot of these pre-rational beliefs. And for a…

> But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.

I agree there is a troubling bubble here. I just don't agree that the bubble in question has anything to do with crypto, as opposed to those getting their jollies dunking on crypto bros.

How many tweets do you have to read before you escape the bubble of OP and learn that the tweet is false...? (By my count, you have to go through 320 HN comments before you will find the first deeply-buried comment pointing out that OP is false and the buyers believed no such thing; this submission is at +501 points, BTW.) Here is a quote from an article published well over a month before OP tweeted: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amansethi/spicedao-dune...

"Now that they have won the bid, Saqib and his associates must make good on their promise to bring the bible to the people and prove that their fundraising approach was not just a gimmick.

As things stand, Saqib still owns Jodorowsky’s bible but is in the process of transferring ownership to the DAO. Meanwhile, the copyrights for the bible’s contents are held by multiple artists and their estates. Jodorowsky is now 92 years old; Jean Giraud, or Moebius, the legendary French illustrator who did all the storyboards, died in 2012; H.R. Giger, who designed the creepy home planet of the House of Harkonnen, died two years later.

“We can’t just scan it and put it on the internet,” Fang said. But by raising the money as a DAO, Fang said they hoped to show the various estates and stakeholders that there is a massive online interest in making the bible more accessible to the public."

They explicitly acknowledge they do not 'own the IP' and can't just scan it etc and it is positioning for negotiation for the actual IP.

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