Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work • Hacker News Board

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#31

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

The more money you have - the less value a marginal dollar has.

I think there would be a massive pressure to raise minimum wage.

Why would you work for $7.50 an hour and pay $1 in taxes - spending the majority of your day to make ~$50 - that doesn't buy much - and you don't have much time to spend it anyway?

When your options are either do that or be homeless and hungry - most people opt for work.

But when you have other options - spending your entire day to make $50 seems dramatically less appealing.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#32

Post by onion2k » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #17

gruez wrote: post #9

>They simulated the reward structure of different forms of social security in an experiment. ‘We got people to do a task on a computer,’ says De Kwaadsteniet. ‘In multiple rounds, which represented the months they had to work, they did a boring task in which they had to put points on a bar. The more of these they did, the more money they earned.’ "short term experiments done in a lab" seems to be psychology's equival…

Yep. Meaningless. Yet the paper will be blasted from one end of the earth to the other by people who care more about their agenda than the universe's frequently unhappy truths. Probably the same people who said that increasing the money supply wouldn't cause inflation because MMT or some other tendentious garbage.

Meaningless.

It's not meaningless. It's not enough to prove that basic income will have a long term positive impact, but it is enough to show further experimentation on a larger, more long term scale is worthwhile. It's decidedly unreasonable, not to mention unscientific, to dismiss something because you don't like it.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#33

Post by lbj » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

Well, in Denmark we have the equivalent of Basic income and I'd say we have a major problem with peoples willingness to work. Some families are on welfare for generations now.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#34

Post by pc86 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

tda wrote: post #27

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

> there are plenty of jobs where you absolutely will quit And so what if people refuse to do shitty jobs? Perhaps we as society can do without those jobs. And if we can't, we should value them more

Which is exactly what will happen. The pay for those jobs will increase, until such a point where it becomes cheaper/easier to just not have the job in the first place.

I don't honestly know why whether or not people will work even factors into one's support for UBI. Some people will keep working, some people won't. Nobody will starve so that seems like something in the "pro" column at least.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#35

Post by oxymoran » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

My anecdote: It would reduce my willingness to work for others but it certainly would not reduce my willingness to work for myself. And it would allow me to take on entrepreneurial risks that I other wise can’t afford at this place in my life.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#36

Post by srcreigh » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

the_real_me wrote: post #5

I strongly suspect that the lion's share of UBI would go directly to landlords or existing property owners.

Would they get any more than the status quo?

I suspect the extra support may translate to decreased profits for landowners. Tenants would have more time and money to file maintenance issues and represent themselves in the legal system, which would cost landowners. In Ontario it costs $50 and takes a lot of time and energy to file a complaint to the LTB. Tenants would also have more ability to change their situation in response to abuse, shop around for a better deal on housing, etc.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#37

Post by Grustaf » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #8

Just look at the billionaires. They are all still working even after reaching retirement age.

Few of them work the checkout at walmart, or in a cement factory.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#38

Post by bruce343434 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

tda wrote: post #27

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

> there are plenty of jobs where you absolutely will quit And so what if people refuse to do shitty jobs? Perhaps we as society can do without those jobs. And if we can't, we should value them more

exactly. Sometimes you need to give the market a hand to set it free.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#39

Post by brailsafe » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

orasis wrote: post #22

sschueller wrote: post #8

Just look at the billionaires. They are all still working even after reaching retirement age.

You’re mixing cause and effect. They became billionaires in large part because of their work ethic.

That's what they'd certainly like you to believe. The success of ycombinator depends on it!

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#40

Post by hoppyhoppy2 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:05 PM UTC

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

>My spouse worked for the state government as part of a benefits/disbursement program. She took phone calls from benefits recipients

Not to excuse bad behavior, but one of the arguments for UBI is that it could help streamline the convoluted systems of government benefits; under a simpler basic-income system perhaps those callers would be fewer and less angry.