Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work • Hacker News Board

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#21

Post by sschueller » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #7

Yes it would. Look: we just went through a massive worker shortage caused by overly generous stimulus benefits and rent subsidies. Have we forgotten already? What am I supposed to believe? A microfoundations paper from a field with infamous replication problems on one hand, or, on the other hand, common sense and my own lying eyes? Of course UBI would reduce propensity to work. Only people with an axe to grind can se…

So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't?

Maybe all these people don't want to work these kinda of jobs and are moving into other sectors.

Maybe working conditions and pay need to be drastically improved in those jobs.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#22

Post by orasis » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #8

Just look at the billionaires. They are all still working even after reaching retirement age.

You’re mixing cause and effect. They became billionaires in large part because of their work ethic.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#23

Post by charcircuit » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

Anecdotally it reduced my willingness to work. I just watch youtube, use blender, program random things, play video games, etc with all of my free time. There are plenty of fun ways I can spend my time.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#24

Post by goldenkey » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #16

greatpostman wrote: post #6

Pay me enough to live without working and I will quit my job and work on a moonshot startup/interesting tech all day. Most likely nothing will come of it, but I won’t be working

Is that a typo? You just said you'll be working, then said you won't be working

He'd be in what capitalists like to call a "quantitative supercommission."

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#25

Post by osrec » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

Avoiding a particular job is not the same as sitting around doing nothing. It's quite possible for you to get basic income, yet channel your energy to other productive things.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#26

Post by dwighttk » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

> We got people to do a task on a computer,’ says De Kwaadsteniet. ‘In multiple rounds, which represented the months they had to work, they did a boring task in which they had to put points on a bar. The more of these they did, the more money they earned.

I find it hilarious that they think they can reach the conclusion they did based on that description of the experiment.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#27

Post by tda » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

> there are plenty of jobs where you absolutely will quit

And so what if people refuse to do shitty jobs? Perhaps we as society can do without those jobs. And if we can't, we should value them more

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#28

Post by Hokusai » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

the_real_me wrote: post #5

I strongly suspect that the lion's share of UBI would go directly to landlords or existing property owners.

Like it happens with current salaries. The problem is not universal income but an economic system that rewards rent seeking.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#29

Post by quotemstr » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #21

quotemstr wrote: post #7

Yes it would. Look: we just went through a massive worker shortage caused by overly generous stimulus benefits and rent subsidies. Have we forgotten already? What am I supposed to believe? A microfoundations paper from a field with infamous replication problems on one hand, or, on the other hand, common sense and my own lying eyes? Of course UBI would reduce propensity to work. Only people with an axe to grind can se…

So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? Maybe all these people don't want to work these kinda of jobs and are moving into other sectors. Maybe working conditions and pay need to be drastically improved in those jobs.

> So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't?

Honestly, yes --- not always, but frequently.

I am sick and tired of the mentality embedded in the sentence I quoted. Do you think the rich are rich for no reason at all? That their rewards are unfair?

Success is not the universe sprinkling good fortune on mankind at random: success comes from hard work and the courage to take advantage of the opportunities that time presents to everyone from time to time.

Let's be honest with ourselves for one and acknowledge the connection between teachable personal qualities and desirable outcomes.

Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work

#30

Post by mettamage » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

ozzythecat wrote: post #4

A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…

One could argue this has nothing to do with willingness to work. In many professions verbal abuse is simply that: verbal abuse. One could say abuse does not count as work (except in healthcare perhaps, e.g. psychiatry). Just like getting beaten up should normally not count as work (except in MMA or as a security guard).

Your point still stands for the professions for which abuse is part of the job by definition. However, I get the idea that too many industries are tolerating it while it could go away by having a culture change.

Another reason why one could argue it’s not the same as willingness to work is because if one is willing to work a job where abuse isn’t really common then you could say that person does have a willingness to work.