Just look at the billionaires. They are all still working even after reaching retirement age.
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Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
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Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#12Multiple studies of where basic income was tried in the real world found it to reduce work.
For example, "Manitoba, Canada experimented with Mincome, a basic guaranteed income, in the 1970s. In the town of Dauphin, Manitoba, labor only decreased by 13%, much less than expected" [1]. There are plenty of others.
I expect a targeted need use of scarce resources (tax money) is a much better use for helping those who need it, instead of ham handedly giving it regardless of need, thereby shorting those who need it at the benefit of many who do not.
And the current inflation (and previous events where govts gave out decent sums of cash to help short term other econ issues) shows what happens when people get money for free - prices rise to absorb it. The reason being if person X is willing to put in pain Y for product Z, this does not change if you rescale the meaning of money.
Product Z simply rises to cause person to put in the same pain to obtain it.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#13It will not reduce the willingness to work but certainly will reduce the willingness of workers to suck it up for low pay, shoddy benefits, lack of holidays, no job security and importantly, the lack of dignity.
The most recent American cash handout is the closest we have come to a large scale UBI and it does exactly what we expect humans to do - follow Maslow's pyramid.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#14This article doesn't have details on the experiment and how much money "social security" was, also it's incredibly easy to generate an experiment which shows no effect if it's underpowered or the effect is minor.
I used to believe this, based on the last 2 years I no longer do. I hope we get to a basic income state so that we change what motivates people to work (from push to pull) but I still maintain a large number of people will choose not to work if they can achieve their personal level of comfort with a basic income.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#15We did a type of UBI experiment in the United States with the universal Covid payments. Low income workers got 80% of the salary. Many chose not to work. Why work 40 hours to make 20% more money than the dole? I’m acquaintances with two local business owners, a roofer and a general contractor, and they told me plainly that they were understaffed because their workers were taking a vacation until the Covid payments ended.
Seems like a more valid experiment to me.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#16Pay me enough to live without working and I will quit my job and work on a moonshot startup/interesting tech all day. Most likely nothing will come of it, but I won’t be working
Is that a typo? You just said you'll be working, then said you won't be working
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#17>They simulated the reward structure of different forms of social security in an experiment. ‘We got people to do a task on a computer,’ says De Kwaadsteniet. ‘In multiple rounds, which represented the months they had to work, they did a boring task in which they had to put points on a bar. The more of these they did, the more money they earned.’ "short term experiments done in a lab" seems to be psychology's equival…
Yep. Meaningless. Yet the paper will be blasted from one end of the earth to the other by people who care more about their agenda than the universe's frequently unhappy truths.
Probably the same people who said that increasing the money supply wouldn't cause inflation because MMT or some other tendentious garbage.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#18The key question is: would it reduce people's willingness to work on things that provide objective monetary value?
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#19We did a type of UBI experiment in the United States with the universal Covid payments. Low income workers got 80% of the salary. Many chose not to work. Why work 40 hours to make 20% more money than the dole? I’m acquaintances with two local business owners, a roofer and a general contractor, and they told me plainly that they were understaffed because their workers were taking a vacation until the Covid payments en…
You're ignoring the fact that they chose not to work during a pandemic, at jobs that almost universally had very poor protection for employees - little to no PPE, in some cases not even hand sanitizer and/or soap (i.e. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/18/amazon-wh..., though I can't remember which warehouse had no soap). That is not applicable to UBI.
Also keep in mind that during this time period many schools were closed, so some of these people were staying home to monitor their children, not just "deciding not to work". Parenting is labor.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#20Multiple studies of where basic income was tried in the real world found it to reduce work. For example, "Manitoba, Canada experimented with Mincome, a basic guaranteed income, in the 1970s. In the town of Dauphin, Manitoba, labor only decreased by 13%, much less than expected" [1]. There are plenty of others. I expect a targeted need use of scarce resources (tax money) is a much better use for helping those who need…
Bullshit work?