151–160 of 454 posts
- fake news stories about Amazon accepting Bitcoin, and something Tether
- "momentum ignition", trying to start a trend by placing a big trade offer and withdrawing it when takers arrive
Are those really a big deal?
I guess technically every trade in crypto or stock markets is also a "market manipulation", as it has the potential to move the price.
Eh 20-ish years ago the shit happening on Island and Archipelago would blow most people’s minds. Undocumented, conditional, non-displayed order types. Routine wash trading. Shear-but-don’t skin multi-venue arbitrage. The ECNs were the Wild West. Smoke-filled dark pools. Island and Arca are NASDAQ and NYSE now. But Ben, US equities have intrinsic value unlike this BTC garbage! Well unless they pay no dividend, have du…
I think the idea would be like what happened to Apple: they eventually grew so much, became so successful, accumulated huge piles of cash bigger than they could possibly spend, that they had to start paying a dividend.
And there is a difference between a company with an inherently unprofitable business model, and a company that would be profitable if they didn't spend so much on growth. Admittedly, it is pretty hard to distinguish those sometimes, especially with the endless rounds of Series D, E, F, G, H, I, etc funding some startups are getting.
That is all speculative, but it's not unproductive beanie babie trading. It is pretty close, especially when the only rationalisation I can think of involves Apple paying dividends, which they didn't do for decades, and Facebook and Google still don't.
Even tulip selling is actually a real business, the tulip mania wasn't as bad as crypto from the "real value" perspective, I think.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on what you mean by the manipulation. Many stock, future, precious metal prices are affected by actors who want to temporarily move it for profit. Some are illegal, some perfectly legal. In what way do you expect Bitcoin to be different? This is a technical question, once you define it one could debate if this particular behavior is present in BTC.
> Depends on what you mean by the manipulation. Fair point. I'll use the SEC's definition: "transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security". What the author described is exactly this. > Some are illegal, some perfectly legal. Agree. My point is probably more about the ease of manipulation when you have a completely deregulated environment.
My guess is that most people that I know that buy BTC, either directly or via some holding schema, do it for the speculation and in this environment they should expect other players to use any method available to them which is not explicitly prohibited. I would treat it like a poker game, where some action happens outside the strict definition of the gameplay (reading facial expressions, probing reactions, etc.). Just my 2c.
Eh 20-ish years ago the shit happening on Island and Archipelago would blow most people’s minds. Undocumented, conditional, non-displayed order types. Routine wash trading. Shear-but-don’t skin multi-venue arbitrage. The ECNs were the Wild West. Smoke-filled dark pools. Island and Arca are NASDAQ and NYSE now. But Ben, US equities have intrinsic value unlike this BTC garbage! Well unless they pay no dividend, have du…
Tulip garbage? Tulip Mania lasted like 6 months, Bitcoin has been running for over 13 years. Don’t get me wrong tho, I do agree anything not being Bitcoin is garbage.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> People who haven't worked in financial markets have a hard time appreciating how deep the muck can get. That's the main reason why I find the battle cry of "decentralization" so comically ironic. No government can control crypto, how awesome and empowering! When the truth is that the vast amount of control that we've seen develop in the past century (and especially in the past two decades) were just to protect peop…
You have a lot more faith in the IPO underwriting process than I do. They don’t call it a “pop” for nothing.
Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.
Yes, it's been painfully obvious from the start. It was the first thing I noticed, once looking into NFTs. I'd be surprised, AMAZED actually, if some of the big NFT collections aren't entrenched in wash trading, to pump up trade volume and price. In fact, I think that in order to successfully launch a NFT collection today, you need to have either: A) Substantial social capital. B) Capital to do the wash trading, or i…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A counterpoint would be that what some call the intrinsic value is the expected future share price based on expected future revenues. There might or might not be future revenue for SNAP, but there is no revenue for a digital currency. But I do think digital currency has intrinsic value, in that for now, it affords you anonymity to commit crimes in a way that ordinary currency does not. I’m not happy about it, but thi…
How is digital currency, in general, anonymous? Bitcoin records all of your transactions, publicly, essentially forever. If at any point in time there is a way to tie your identity to _any_ of the transactions made in your lifetime, then all of your other transactions get deanonymized retroactively. Maybe you made a mistake, maybe a bug is introduced into the Bitcoin software, maybe the government passes a new law, e…
Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.
Reminds me of this sketch from Enfield and Whitehouse https://youtu.be/ZiJa9diJOMk
https://genius.com/Harry-enfield-loadsamoney-doin-up-the-hou...
Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.
Eh 20-ish years ago the shit happening on Island and Archipelago would blow most people’s minds. Undocumented, conditional, non-displayed order types. Routine wash trading. Shear-but-don’t skin multi-venue arbitrage. The ECNs were the Wild West. Smoke-filled dark pools. Island and Arca are NASDAQ and NYSE now. But Ben, US equities have intrinsic value unlike this BTC garbage! Well unless they pay no dividend, have du…
There are also all sorts of unpublished arrangements like colocating servers for privileged partners; you will _never_ trade into an order they don't want you to when you have 5ms latency and they have microseconds.
On the one hand, people have never really understood just how dirty it is. On the other, most of that is now just the long flat line on the chart...