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Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

ergo.human.cornell.edu

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Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#81

Post by 3am »

This intuitively makes sense. A lot of you are noting that a sedentary office environment is foreign to a species that has spent most of it time - prior to the last several thousand years - moving in search of food, and use that to critique the article. But I don't see how standing stationarily in one place is any less foreign to the human experience.

While standing might help work additional core muscles, it is not working large leg muscles that are crucial to circulation at the same time that it's increasing stress to the circulatory system.

(For those that don't know, muscle movement is important to the return of blood to the heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venous_return_curve) in addition to lymphatic circulation (your _other_ circulatory system - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph#Lymphatic_circulation) )

I could see persistent standing w/o movement stressing arteries because of greater hydrostatic pressure in your legs and increased load on the left ventricle of the heart.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#82

Post by dhugiaskmak »

ableal wrote: post #41

Many moons ago, my engineering school had classrooms full of wooden drafting tables (not unlike this: http://www.plotter-printers.com/oak-drafting-tables-2/ ). I cannot find online a picture similar to the wooden stools we had: tall, square seat slightly tilted forward at perhaps a 15 degree angle, cross-bars usable as foot-rests. (Later, of course, "progress" occurred and the furniture was replaced with plastic chai…

Like this? http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/bizchair1_2174_1598485773

I've always wondered if these are comfortable or not.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#83

Post by danparsonson »

tluyben2 wrote: post #69
danparsonson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering about something similar myself - do you walk the entire time you're working? If so, do you use a combination of a standing desk and a treadmill, or something similar? Do you find it tiring to do for 7-8 hours, and does it give you any other problems, e.g. with your feet?

Yes I walk the entire time and I don't find it tiring; I do tread lightly and walk on bear feet. I don't use a treadmill either; I walk in-place which is much (for me) less tiring than a treadmill which takes starting up and ending. In place walking (even on a WII board which counts what i'm doing) is very comfortable IMHO.

Thank you for your reply, that's interesting - I hadn't considered walking on the spot.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#84

Post by AlexC04 »

raldi wrote: post #78

I don't get it: the actual study (which they even link to) appears to draw the exact opposite conclusion: http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/Pub/HFlabReports/EHARep0904.pd... See page 29 especially, and the graphs starting on page 19.

Wow. You're right. Even as early on as the abstract, the "conclusion" of the study seems to be the complete opposite of what I think is more accurately described as a "policy document"

--- > This report describes results for a study of electric height-adjustable worksurfaces (EHAWs) conducted in two companies. A total of 33 computer workers from the two companies worked at fixed-height worksurfaces (FHWs) and then at EHAWs for between 4 and 6 weeks. Participants completed extensive survey questionnaires immediately before and then 4-6 weeks after using the EHAWs. Results showed significant decreases in the severity of musculoskeletal discomfort for most upper body regions. In the EHAW condition daily discomfort ratings were lower in the afternoon and productivity ratings improved. Written comments about the EHAWs generally were positive. There was a strong preference for using the EHAWs. Implications are discussed.

     *significant decreases in the severity of musculoskeletal discomfort
     *daily discomfort ratings were lower
     *productivity ratings improved
     *strong preference for using the EHAWs
Corporate policy is often based on more than just study results. In this case, maybe the internal ergonomics department looked at the cost associated with outfitting everyone's desk with electric motors and decided against officially declaring them a good thing.

Thanks for reading the original source. I had a bad "feeling" about the article, I know it's on a Cornell website, but it doesn't come across as an actual study of any sort.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#85

Post by zellyn »

raldi wrote: post #78

I don't get it: the actual study (which they even link to) appears to draw the exact opposite conclusion: http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/Pub/HFlabReports/EHARep0904.pd... See page 29 especially, and the graphs starting on page 19.

The ergonomics department's conclusion seems much cheaper for them, though...

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#86

Post by dredmorbius »

jacobian wrote: post #55
pointyhat wrote: post #13

I never quite understood the appeal of standing up all day. Having done a couple of jobs in my youth which involved standing up all day and spending 2 hours a day on a train standing up, I couldn't think of anything less appealing. I love my Aeron and so does my arse.

Over the last couple of years I've been having a couple of problems at work: increasing lower back pain and decreasing attention span. I had no reason to assume either had anything to do with my desk: I, too, rock the Aeron and think it's comfy as heck. I've got my keyboard and monitor at the right height. I take breaks every 30-60 minutes and go walk around. Etc. But as the back pain kept getting worse, I finally de…

How old are you? 30s plus?

What sort of strength training are you doing?

Squats, deads, lunges, back hypers, good mornings, and GHRs will do a lot more for your lower back strength than any amount of fiddling with your chair.

Not all at once, of course, but start light and work up.

Muscle is gained when it's subjected to progressive overload. It's lost when no demands are made on it. For most people, sarcopenia (age-related muscle loss) starts becoming pronounced in the 30s. Strength training turns this around.

You'll also find that proper lift posture does a lot for back health -- musculature and spine.

Getting up and walking around through the day helps, of course. But it's not the total solution either.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#87

Post by nazgulnarsil »

Tharkun wrote: post #43
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #14

I'm looking into getting an inversion table. Has anyone used one of these? all the studies have been on people who already have problems such as ruptured or herniated discs.

Are you referring to one of these? :/ http://backinversiontable.com/wp-content/bitfeed/images/fitn...

yes

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#88

Post by nazgulnarsil »

Anterior pelvic tilt is caused by tight hamstrings and weak posture muscles which are side effects of sitting all day. Weighted barbell squats fix this problem more effectively than anything else I know of. Walking is important, but a strong core is probably even more important for long term back health.

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#89

Post by RegEx »

zck wrote: post #60
jacobian wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last couple of years I've been having a couple of problems at work: increasing lower back pain and decreasing attention span. I had no reason to assume either had anything to do with my desk: I, too, rock the Aeron and think it's comfy as heck. I've got my keyboard and monitor at the right height. I take breaks every 30-60 minutes and go walk around. Etc. But as the back pain kept getting worse, I finally de…

There have been studies done -- I can't find any on a quick search -- that show that changing a working habit makes them more productive. Then it tails off. Change the habit back, and they get another burst of productivity. So you may be right, and it's just because it's new. Or it may work for you.

So this is why I find myself cycling between 5 different "productivity apps"

Re: Cornell Ergonomics Web finds standing desks present their own issues

#90

Post by niels_olson »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #88

Anterior pelvic tilt is caused by tight hamstrings and weak posture muscles which are side effects of sitting all day. Weighted barbell squats fix this problem more effectively than anything else I know of. Walking is important, but a strong core is probably even more important for long term back health.

Doc here. Anterior pelvic tilt is a fancy way of saying "slouching". Slouching isn't bad. An Olympic squatter can slouch with the best of them. Slouching for 8 hours is bad. Stand. Walk. Just don't sit all day.
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