An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation • Hacker News Board

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#81

Post by mml » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

Cederfjard wrote: post #66

gunshai wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of misunderstanding of history. He started X.com which would later become PayPal.

To be even more precise, X.com merged with Thiel's Confinity, which already had a product called PayPal, and later the whole company was renamed after the latter. PayPal existed as a thing before Musk's involvement.

oh, and musk was fired for incompetence, and all his code thrown away after the x.com acquisition. he also isn't the founder of Tesla. basically everything "everyone knows" about Elon "monorail" Musk, is a lie.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#82

Post by syntaxing » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

I don’t have enough mathematical knowledge in this subject to back this statement up but I swear I noticed this for SPACs too. There’s these really odd spikes up and down that does not make any sense according to public information

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#83

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

mwattsun wrote: post #75

ceejayoz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He knows more than I do, is surrounded by people smarter than I am and has a track record of success and overcoming failures. He's also got a track history of being massively wrong at times on things that aren't inside his wheelhouse, like confidently predicting the end of COVID by April 2020.

I'm not here to defend Elon Musk, but since he is tentatively experimenting with accepting crypto as payment for some of his products, I assume crypto is in his wheelhouse

That's a bit like saying having COVID cases in his factories makes him an expert in epidemiology.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#84

Post by spoiler » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

masona wrote: post #53

skilled wrote: post #31

Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.

The fine art market has been doing this for decades by using auction records to set prices.

You can't buy and sell the same item to yourself at an auction multiple times... Or am I missing the point you're trying to make?

Also, the value is in the art, not the receipt. With NFT, that's not the case... Unless it's an exchangeable NFT, like one you can exchange for a service (e.g. as a tick) or some goods, but that's not really how NFTs are being used.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#85

Post by jimmydorry » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

hnmullany wrote: post #23

StrangeClone wrote: post #14

This is done in regular stock market too. Fake news, speculation, etc are frequent. Ex: “X giant is acquiring Y” claims with no data to back up. What’s different in case of crypto?

If it's significant enough, the SEC will knock on your door when this happens in the regular market

I’m not aware of any pundits, that get on the TV to push agendas about stocks, getting in any trouble with the SEC. I’m not sure if it’s just because I have been looking closer recently, or had more time WFH, but the blatant manipulation on morning shows and financial segments is appalling.

Things like saying a given pharmaceutical is headed for zero because their drug failed to get FDA approval, when actually the company had just started their trial and not yet sought approval.

Or pushing a stock then pretending to lose connection when asked what the company does.

Or saying that a company pivoting to online retail will not have the necessary skills and will be facilitating terrorists (name dropping Al Kaida).

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#86

Post by iechoz6H » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

masona wrote: post #53

skilled wrote: post #31

Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.

The fine art market has been doing this for decades by using auction records to set prices.

I guess the main difference between the two markets is that with fine art the object is genuinely rare/unique.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#87

Post by dadoge » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #80

dadoge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Down down down huh? https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/bitcoin-logarithmic-g...

someone could have said the same about Enron in 2001 too

Enron was run by a corrupt CEO who lied about its accounting.

Bitcoin has no CEO or accountants.

It has also gone up A LOT more than Enron did over a much longer timespan.

How can you look at the log chart and think BTC is “going to zero”?

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#88

Post by spoiler » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #65

skilled wrote: post #31

Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.

It's brilliant but not simple at all. You can't just mint an NFT, wash trade it up to a large number and then expect somebody to buy it. This plan would almost always fail. Because it would pop out of nowhere and nobody has ever heard of you. So just like in the traditional art world, you need to be visible and networked. It's very educational to simply browse the big marketplaces. You'll notice that the typical NFT…

> Because it would pop out of nowhere and nobody has ever heard of you.

Isn't that everything in the crypto space right now?

> So just like in the traditional art world, you need to be visible and networked.

People who spend hundreds, if not thousands, on procgen chimpanzee/monkey avatar NFTs would beg to differ.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#89

Post by dadoge » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

cuteboy19 wrote: post #71

dadoge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Down down down huh? https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/bitcoin-logarithmic-g...

Log graphs and almost parallel lines! Perfect tools for dishonest data representation!

How so? What is dishonest about it?

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#90

Post by TrackerFF » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

skilled wrote: post #31

Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.

Yes, it's been painfully obvious from the start. It was the first thing I noticed, once looking into NFTs.

I'd be surprised, AMAZED actually, if some of the big NFT collections aren't entrenched in wash trading, to pump up trade volume and price.

In fact, I think that in order to successfully launch a NFT collection today, you need to have either:

A) Substantial social capital.

B) Capital to do the wash trading, or investors to back you.

C) Probably both above.