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An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

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Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#11

Post by mcbishop »

Hokusai wrote: post #6
mwattsun wrote: post #5

I'm suspicious of Bitcoin as a store of value. Some seem to think that because there is a fixed amount of Bitcoin it will automatically rise in price as demand confronts scarcity, but that assumes there will continued demand. Elon Musk says Dogecoin is better because it has some inflation built in, encouraging people to spend instead of hoard, but adds "I'm not saying that it's the ideal system for a currency" "Elon…

How is Elon Musk a relevant opinion on this matter? Even worse, he is well known for astroturfing his own assets.

Elon Musk in the exchange above:

> I think I have a pretty deep understanding of what money actually is on a practical day-to-day basis, because of PayPal.

His comments in the exchange seem insightful to me. I assume you didn't bother reading them.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#12

Post by ajross »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #8

They do it down too. It’s not a secret or illegal. Here’s a post mortem from the guy that did it. https://twitter.com/AlamedaTrabucco/status/14672197118301511... Ready for a move up again soon.

That thread is just describing a long squeeze, which is an mechanism, not manipulation. The allegations in the linked article (against the same guy!) are quite a bit more detailed. And they absolutely are illegal in real money trading on licensed exchanges; whether they constitute crimes in the crypto world is sort of an open question.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#13

Post by iso1631 »

Meh, it's more fun than gambling on the superbowl. Put $50 in, and with the superbowl you get an hour of watching a game and maybe come out with $100 or maybe come out with $0

With bitcoin you get to ride the highs and lows for years and maybe come out with nothing, or maybe with $5000

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#16

Post by adrianN »

noja wrote: post #10
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #8

They do it down too. It’s not a secret or illegal. Here’s a post mortem from the guy that did it. https://twitter.com/AlamedaTrabucco/status/14672197118301511... Ready for a move up again soon.

> It’s not [...] illegal Errr - what? I think you'll find that market manipulation is prohibited in the US under Section 9(a)(2) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in the EU under article 12 of the Market Abuse Regulation (etc.) The US Securities Exchange Act defines market manipulation as "transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security". See https://en.…

Is Bitcoin already classified as a tradable security or is it still Monopoly money?

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#17

Post by cma »

noja wrote: post #10
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #8

They do it down too. It’s not a secret or illegal. Here’s a post mortem from the guy that did it. https://twitter.com/AlamedaTrabucco/status/14672197118301511... Ready for a move up again soon.

> It’s not [...] illegal Errr - what? I think you'll find that market manipulation is prohibited in the US under Section 9(a)(2) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in the EU under article 12 of the Market Abuse Regulation (etc.) The US Securities Exchange Act defines market manipulation as "transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security". See https://en.…

It's not classified as a security.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#18

Post by VHRanger »

StrangeClone wrote: post #14

This is done in regular stock market too. Fake news, speculation, etc are frequent. Ex: “X giant is acquiring Y” claims with no data to back up. What’s different in case of crypto?

Two things:

1. Because crypto exchanges are also clearinghouses, liquidations tend to cascade.

2. It's much more blatant in the crypto markets. See the DRW lawsuit linked in the article - the CFTC is aware that DRW is doing similar things in the CME futures market, but the extent to which it's done is smaller.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#19

Post by mwattsun »

Hokusai wrote: post #6
mwattsun wrote: post #5

I'm suspicious of Bitcoin as a store of value. Some seem to think that because there is a fixed amount of Bitcoin it will automatically rise in price as demand confronts scarcity, but that assumes there will continued demand. Elon Musk says Dogecoin is better because it has some inflation built in, encouraging people to spend instead of hoard, but adds "I'm not saying that it's the ideal system for a currency" "Elon…

How is Elon Musk a relevant opinion on this matter? Even worse, he is well known for astroturfing his own assets.

He knows more than I do, is surrounded by people smarter than I am and has a track record of success and overcoming failures. If I thought I shouldn't listen to Elon Musk because I thought I knew better, then I think my chances of understanding anything about this would be greatly diminished.
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