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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#391

Post by mavhc »

vanusa wrote: post #219
weare138 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wat? The article is just talking about automated software parsing different file formats. If you're worried about 'Equifax-like companies that verify all the bullet points' I'm sorry to inform you that's already happening. Not that I agree with this system but that's where we already are. People can't get jobs because the current zeitgeist in the industry is using algorithmic software to select candidates. The entire…

[Regarding] 'Equifax-like companies that verify all the bullet points' I'm sorry to inform you that's already happening. Specifically? Yes there are obviously companies that strip mine every nugget of "data" they can possibly find about an individual, and then pass this along to whoever may be willing to buy, garbage-in, garbage-out style. But actually verifying that this information has anything to do with the real…

Shouldn't a universal Resume format also include digitally signed proof of your claims of degrees and certifications?

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#392

Post by julian_sark »

estaseuropano wrote: post #353

The EU has tried to put one in place, and it is used for all EU funding programmes and by a number of national and local administrations in Europe, so probably tens of millions used per year. Not sure I like the format but its good it stresses experience and narrative over just 'formal' data. And they have done it quite nicely that you can either download a template and work offline, or you can work in the browser an…

Amazing - I have recently created a CV at the EU's job advert aggregation website, EURES, and that appears to be a separate thing? Great to have a standard when the own organization doesn't appear to follow it? wonder

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#393

Post by 7952 »

julian_sark wrote: post #356
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

They should. You are correct on that. Reality is, however and in my experience, that more and more HR departments fall for promises of AI snake oil. Virtually every employer I apply with has it's own portal, often times asking you to construct your CV anew on their website (often with drop downs that don't include the actual job title or skill). Preferably with a five minute web session and no submit confirmation. Co…

I guess you could have a pdf with a hidden text layer full of tags and keywords.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#394

Post by pendar747 »

vanusa wrote: post #174
moralestapia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

> It's "Node.js" with a dot. If you spell it "nodejs", that's a serious red flag and you shouldn't be surprised if it gets you automatically discarded -- even by a human reviewer.

Best example of someone I wouldn't want to work for ever

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#395

Post by wruza »

onion2k wrote: post #291
moralestapia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. Fixing that would require not only a universal data format but also a universal taxonomy of terms to describe skills. That would need everyone to agree on how to describe what they do. Easy enough when you're describing programmin…

Fixing that would require not only a universal data format but also a universal taxonomy of terms

A regular HR can only do CTRL-F CTRL-V efficiently in their PDF viewer, when automated system would likely test for /\bnode(?:\.?js)?\b/i, because it's a result of a development cycle, which usually includes some field analysis. HRs would LOVE to select something like "where has($node) and years($redux) >= 2 order by years($php) desc". They are not idiots, they just have piles of data and nonsensical tools. Of course they optimize for nonsense.

A human could search for different variations too, but they are average in average and have no the expertise to install a regex-able viewer. It's stupid little things like this that prevent them from doing their job better, not some systemic issue of their own.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#396

Post by eptcyka »

wruza wrote: post #395
onion2k wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. Fixing that would require not only a universal data format but also a universal taxonomy of terms to describe skills. That would need everyone to agree on how to describe what they do. Easy enough when you're describing programmin…

Fixing that would require not only a universal data format but also a universal taxonomy of terms A regular HR can only do CTRL-F CTRL-V efficiently in their PDF viewer, when automated system would likely test for /\bnode(?:\.?js)?\b/i, because it's a result of a development cycle, which usually includes some field analysis. HRs would LOVE to select something like "where has($node) and years($redux) >= 2 order by yea…

> They are not idiots, they just have piles of data and nonsensical tools.

Disagree.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#397

Post by belter »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

They were also looking for developers with nosql but they could not find any...all developers knew sql...

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#398

Post by [deleted] »

virtualritz wrote: post #378

Same reason there is none for business cards. A business card conveys much more than purely the name, title and contact information of its bearer. My CV/résumé is done using exquisite typography (since I studied that) and the choice of fonts and layout has a message too. There is an interesting symmetry between the early role role of business cards and résumés today btw.[1] These things can not be captured by the con…

[deleted]

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#399

Post by pqb »

jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

CV or resume analyzed by non-human? Or in an universal format? I hope this will never happen.

How "automatized" way could help there? Unifying the CV/resumes for certain company? Sure, if they are have some form - could be stupid Google Form or more sophisticated like Teamtailor [0] - go ahead. You will have a nice databases or resumes and profiles similar to mini-LinkedIn. While I am fan of automation, I don't see any special incentive here that will profit HR team.

I know hundreds of examples, where CV nor initial job interview didn't exactly has shown how good someone is. Also, I personally had experienced a situation I have completely matched the job offer but after talk during interview, I knew it would be waste of time and mentally it will be a bad choice for next year(s) to join their Acme corp.

Do the JSON databases of applicants will help anyhow to solve the human relation job to find out the best candidate for the position? I am highly skeptical and in my humble opinion it will just "dehumanify" the whole process.

Maybe, it is good if you are looking for some warehouse worker like Amazon? /s

[0]: https://www.teamtailor.com/en/

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#400

Post by andylynch »

julian_sark wrote: post #392
estaseuropano wrote: post #353

The EU has tried to put one in place, and it is used for all EU funding programmes and by a number of national and local administrations in Europe, so probably tens of millions used per year. Not sure I like the format but its good it stresses experience and narrative over just 'formal' data. And they have done it quite nicely that you can either download a template and work offline, or you can work in the browser an…

Amazing - I have recently created a CV at the EU's job advert aggregation website, EURES, and that appears to be a separate thing? Great to have a standard when the own organization doesn't appear to follow it? wonder

I haven’t tried it, but you should find you can export to and from your EURES profile to Europass (and vice versa)- they are distinct, but connected.
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