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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#351

Post by hu3 »

vanusa wrote: post #189
netcan wrote: post #33

Hiring companies might prefer to just have this as a "hoop." There are, inevitably, some people who apply to a lot of jobs. Jobs they aren't qualified for. Low intent applications, where the applicant isn't really that interested. Etc. Even if these are a minority, they apply to a lot of jobs. In any case, standardizing job applications (OP seems to be talking about application forms that are mostly resume-ish fields…

Sometimes a modicum of friction is helpful. The thing is it's far more than a "modicum" in practice. There was a recent Harvard Business School study out there revealing that these systems are poorly calibrated (and/or these companies don't know how to use them), and as a result millions of candidates are getting rejected for reasons that are either specious (6-month resume "gaps" that may be due to normal life circu…

> 6-month resume "gaps" that may be due to normal life circumstances

Yep, that's me taking care of my mother undergoing cancer treatment.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#353

Post by estaseuropano »

The EU has tried to put one in place, and it is used for all EU funding programmes and by a number of national and local administrations in Europe, so probably tens of millions used per year.

Not sure I like the format but its good it stresses experience and narrative over just 'formal' data. And they have done it quite nicely that you can either download a template and work offline, or you can work in the browser and then download later again upload/import your CV to continue editing, make versions, etc without any data being stored on the server.

https://europa.eu/europass/en

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#355

Post by estaseuropano »

andoli wrote: post #337
schipplock wrote: post #315

there is Europass CV: https://europa.eu/europass/en/what-europass

I can confirm in the EU europass is widely adopted. I do not love it very much, but I appreciate the online tools to create/update them from XML descriptors, without having to mess with Word; on the other side, being a generic template, is not very fit to expose CS skills. An employer I know (in the startup scene) said he trashed all europass CV as he assumed you are a dull corporate droid who did not even take time…

That is great for all the people who prepared their CV in this format and avoided an employer who is unable to appreciate standards that work across borders or to realize that the information is more important than the format...

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#356

Post by julian_sark »

jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

They should. You are correct on that.

Reality is, however and in my experience, that more and more HR departments fall for promises of AI snake oil. Virtually every employer I apply with has it's own portal, often times asking you to construct your CV anew on their website (often with drop downs that don't include the actual job title or skill). Preferably with a five minute web session and no submit confirmation. Couple this with companies increasingly not responding at all due to fear of being sued, and you'll spend hours on an application and won't even know whether the non-response is due to you, or due to the website trashing the submission. As for CV parsing, this has gone so far as to a big news site over here posting helpful articles on how to beat the system. "Favorite" tidbit: Submit two CV - one for humans, one for dumb algorithms.

Oh and btw, I'm applying at non-tech companies increasingly. Maybe humans isn't perfect either. I mean, I submit proof of 25 years of high grade enterprise IT experience, just for some HR person to ask me where my certificate as an "IT technian" is: they don't know what any of that "weird stuff" means, but to them I lack a generic "IT technician" certificate in early career. A thing that didn't even exist back then! But the latter may just well be a quirk of my own, bureaucratic country.

But overall, this is a hot mess already, and I have often times had the same thought: Why can't we have some sort interchangeable format, much like "geek code", just for all the possible job titles, universities, locations, and companies; with some format-dependent, but free text fields because one can never catch all of them in a fixed list?

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#357

Post by jjgreen »

pithon wrote: post #323
black_puppydog wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree they should be read by humans, but (and I feel most comments are missing that point) a standard format would help with that. Having been reading resumes a lot lately, I always breathe a sigh of relief when people hand in the standard latex template, with maybe only the colors changed. The structure is immediately familiar and easy to navigate. I could use a client app that presents a hypothetical standard dat…

What do you mean by "the" standard LaTeX template?

ModernCV? https://ctan.org/pkg/moderncv

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#358

Post by nathias »

vanusa wrote: post #174
moralestapia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

this level of pedantry is insane, I'm considering spelling it wrong on purpose to avoid this kind of environments

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#359

Post by peterkelly »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

This is a people problem, not a technical one.

If a company is choosing which candidates to interview using grep, it's very likely the rest of their hiring process is similarly broken, and quite possibly other aspects of their corporate culture as well. They're actually doing candidates a favour by giving a clear indicator of how shit they are, much like a candidate who turns up to an interview drunk.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#360

Post by black_puppydog »

jjgreen wrote: post #357
pithon wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "the" standard LaTeX template?

ModernCV? https://ctan.org/pkg/moderncv

Exactly. That one. Example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Moderncv...

Note that I'm not arguing that this it the best presentation possible for a CV. I'm just arguing that having a uniform presentation between CVs reduces the mental burden of filtering through them. (And if you want to get into that, might reduce bias, especially if you don't include the image in the presentation)

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