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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

toot.cat

251–260 of 472 posts

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#251
post #20

Why should there be? Resumes have to be read by humans to judge if they match what is needed. Checking boxes and matching buzzwords only gets you so far.

I think because some things like work history, education, they lend themselves to pretty standardized fields. And we have to keep filling them out by hand ...

On the other hand, when you get a bit experienced, you have to filter your resume instead of just submitting everything, and the filters are different for every company, showing the things that are most relevant. E.g. some internship or award or early ten years ago should be included if the topic is relevant for the role and left out otherwise; the six different positions you had during your tenure at a large company may be important in one application to illustrate that you have done a particular role as well, and a waste of space for another application.

On the other hand, it makes all sense to have a standard "full" CV out of which to select the things to include.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#252

There is in Japan. I seems horrible to me. (not saying it couldn't be done better) https://www.google.com/search?q=%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E6%9B%B8&... You list your school info, job history (not what you did, just date, company, title), and have room for about 2 sentences of personal description. You also have to put your picture so you can be judged on appearance. Japan has some really nice features but treatment of emp…

To add a little more detail, there are two general resumes you submit to companies in Japan, one is the condensed one that the parent google linked (Rirekisho). The other is a more detailed "Keirekisho" which can be many pages and allows you to go into a lot of detail about your previous work and why you want to join your prospective company: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%E7%B5%8C%E6%AD%B4%E6%9B%B8&t=ffab...

There is a bit of flexibility with these formats, but they're standard enough—and many teaching resources are available. Most Japanese university students are already using them to apply for companies in their final year. This contrasts with my time at a California university, where many of my peers had no idea how to write a resume even after graduating.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#253
post #30

I’m pretty sure PDFs are the universal for resumes or close to it. Don’t send a word doc though.

some agencies prefer DOCs so that they can edit it easily

Exactly, that's the very reason why you shouldn't send a word doc because it may turn out that the recipient is an agency like that.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#255

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

" Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic ... but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be encouraged."

Reviewing CVs is boring. They should be made easy for the human who is reading. Imagine being a person in a human resources department going through 100s of these... If there was a good portable format, that process becomes far more efficient and interesting.

A good interview after the resume has been accepted would go into precisely what you are advocating for -- the life history and interpersonal context.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#256
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's "Node.js" with a dot. If you spell it "nodejs", that's a serious red flag and you shouldn't be surprised if it gets you automatically discarded -- even by a human reviewer. Oh, really!? I'll be very glad NOT to work at a company that throws aways candidates because of such triviliaties.

Perfectionism and pedantism are good qualities some teams are after, it is unsurprising that some people would reject a candidate who did not bother “properly” writing the name of the technology they use.

I have a lot of merge requests in some pretty big projects correcting SASS to Sass in the code and documentation. I'm surprised no one ever seems to question their notion of spelling proper names when it's a quick web search away.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#257
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I mean -- people believe in Big Data so much these days that when something appears in a sufficient portion of search results, it must have actual validity.

Isn't that the same as natural language? "Bone Apple Tea" gets corrected both because it's wrong, and because many people know so. "Begging the Question" is used incorrectly _so frequently_ that even dictionaries have come to accept the incorrect usage as an alternative. It's now correct-ish just because it's popular. So if Node.js has that many more hits than nodejs, it's not surprising that some people see it as ca…

It's only a matter of time before “alot” is accepted shudder

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#258
post #51

If you really want a job at my company, and the level at which you decide "this isn't worth my time" is 2 minutes to enter your details then you weren't a good fit in the first place. There are genuine reasons to turn down stupid requests in interview (ridiculous coding tests) but "Re-enter all your details into this form" isn't that hard, and if you really think you want the job then it's a very small price to pay.…

The thing is that it's nowhere close to 2 minutes. Heck, it's optimistic even if you're straight out of college or if you're explicitly asking for just the most recent employment; but if your system is asking for everything and there's a few decades of data to enter in a weird form, you'd be lucky to do it in half an hour.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#259

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

Whether or not it should happen doesn't answer the question of why it hasn't happened. The fact is that the very companies that do automated processing of applications probably would welcome resume standardization, so why didn't they do it yet? It's in their power to propose a standard, settle on it, and require it.

I suspect the answer as to why it hasn't happened is simply because most laypeople applicants would find it too difficult to do something like LaTeX or whatever other thing would be necessary to make this a reality, and also, firms in general suck at adopting new technology.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#260
I’ll start with my background, not for ego, but for context on what I know about why this remains a problem. I’ve written 3 Amazon Careers #1 Bestsellers on resume writing. A decade ago I ran the largest paid resume writing service in the country. I currently run Leet Resumes, the largest free professional writing service in the USA. My company did the famous eye tracking study showing that recruiters only spend 6 seconds on their initial screen of a resume. I’ve interviewed the CEOs and technical experts at the five largest resume parsing companies. And I regularly interview the CEOs of the ATSs.

So I’ve thought about this a lot :)

Properly understood, a resume is an advertisement to your future boss to get you interview requests for a job you can succeed in.

Why isn’t there a single format to do this? At the core, the reason is a combination of personal expression and xkcd #927: https://xkcd.com/927/

We already know what is the most effective resume format for hiring managers. We’ve done the research, the focus groups, the AB tests, and longitudinal studies. The reverse chronological, one-column structure with black web standard fonts only, a single level of bullet points, and a simple professional summary and technology section, is, hands down, the most effective format. Google has studied it as well and came to the same conclusions: https://www.leetresumes.com/blog/what-google-recruiters-look...

Almost all of the top search results on Google vary from this format, however, because search results are based on what’s popular, not what’s effective.

Psychologically, professionals have only one document in their lives to sum up their careers. Even though the true purpose of the resume is to get you interview requests for a job you can succeed in, professionals can’t help writing their resume to satisfy their own aesthetic or narrative goals, rather than the hiring manager’s. There’s a desire to express oneself on a resume in ways that are irrelevant, or often actually harmful, to the goal of getting hired.

At Leet, when we launched on Hacker News last year, we had great conversations with many of you about why simplifying your format would be for the best. I recall one experienced engineer who had custom built something in LaTeX to automatically generate his resume as he incrementally updated it. I pointed out that ATSs were unable to read the document because of how it was encoded. Multiply that story times 90 million professionals, each of whom may bring just a few small extremely damaging customizations to the process, and you’ll see why a single standard hasn’t been adopted from the professional’s side.

From the hiring manager’s side, standardizing a resume format has largely followed the xkcd story line. A company or coalition tries to introduce a standard, which varies from other best practices, and the end result is an additional competing standard.

So the long answer is that standards would be excellent, except for the fact that users won’t adhere to them :).

Happy to answer questions!

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