I'm increasingly seeing "web 3.0" as basically a two headed beast: 1) a way to part greater fools from their money until the hype has died out 2) a hot topic to drive clicks and discussions for nerds and, increasingly, the tech press, from other more pressing issues that exist in terms of tech and culture and finance In other words, its a bullshit scam, can we please move on already?
It's funny how HN is negative towards crypto and web3 (see all upvoted articles on the topic, and related comments). Yet can't seem to stop talking about it. I get it, you don't like it. So I agree with your last point: let's all please move on.
It’s not still the early days of blockchain
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Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#922Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would not trust a central database for any application, even those where I have to trust the verifiers of the entries to that database. I don't see how that's reasonable. What am I missing, surely virtually nobody would be willing to spend the massive resources of a blockchain for that kind of risk model. > E.g. I would prefer stablecoins over credit in a bank. So aside from coins, what's another concrete example…
>>So aside from coins, what's another concrete example? What you wrote earlier is: >>Crypto coins are unique in that you can verify them mathematically. They have no connection to anything else out in the real world so they don't have that problem. Stablecoins cannot be verified entirely mathematically, as they have a connection to real world bank notes, so my example doesn't fit your exception. >>This sounds very mu…
A stable coin where you trust whoever is providing the backing for that asset is no different from a crypto currency in that way, the trust model still requires that you trust someone to honor the coin or value it in some way.
So it's a bad example. The interesting part about it that you can move coins between people who don't trust one another without a 3rd party is entirely due to the remotely verifiable nature of the thing, like any other coin. That is the one and only interesting thing about it, and that's common to all these kind of coins.
I'm asking for something else.
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#923I'm increasingly seeing "web 3.0" as basically a two headed beast: 1) a way to part greater fools from their money until the hype has died out 2) a hot topic to drive clicks and discussions for nerds and, increasingly, the tech press, from other more pressing issues that exist in terms of tech and culture and finance In other words, its a bullshit scam, can we please move on already?
It's a way to authenticate yourself without a centralized authority. So right now it's being used to create exclusive communities, access to which theoretically has some value. In the future, there may be application ecosystems which operate solely against your wallet information, no need for registration. Maybe that has some value too - time will tell. I don't follow the details of the web3 market closely, so not sp…
Can someone provide me with a clear example of this being implemented? AFAIK accessing blockchain from a traditional client(website/app) still requires going through a central node.
Did something change with 'Web3'? Pardon me for not being up-to-date but it's like one day I woke up and Web3 is all over the place it seems like well-coordinated, heavily funded campaign. How else can we explain this seemingly sudden trend of Web3?
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#924Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but is it a problem worth solving beyond what we have today? What’s the last time we saw an database integrity failure at the DMV/… leading to cars being owned by people that shouldn’t?
I'm pretty sure it wasn't more recently than the last time people lost control of assets on a blockchain! Replacing databases which afaik have never been manipulated anywhere in the world (despite representing legal ownership of high value assets) with tokens similar to those people lose access to or are duped out of on a daily basis is very Web3
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#925Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I was a young engineer in 2006, the marketing about Web 2.0 was in every tender for IT projects, so much that my boss created the “Web 4.3 dev community” in my city to point out the ridiculousness of it. Every versioning of that idea is marketing speech.
Web 2.0 and 3.0 are not directly comparable just because they have similar names, a fallacy of equivocation. Web2.0 might have had a silly name, but the idea of the web as something that the average user and company could contribute back to and use to communicate with in real time provided explicit value and convenience over existing alternatives (letter writing, door-to-door sales, in-person self-promotion, calling…
> I don’t see that with web3.0.
I do.
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#926Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a nice little Kafka trap you’ve constructed to disregard the people who change their minds away from what you think. So every time someone changes their mind and uses their previous opinion as informative you are going to non-committally imply it’s “evangelism?”
It's not really a trap -- it's more a rhetorical tactic. The trick is that when you say "I used to believe X, but now I've realized I was wrong and believe Y", you can get away without giving evidence for why X was wrong and Y is right . You appeal to a commonality between you and your audience (your audience believes X, you used to believe X) and by presenting your change you imply that they are being left behind, t…
Logic, for human debates, is very nice in theory. But there is a reason humans adopted shortcut thinking and don't use logic all the time. We are not robots. We don't have infinite processing capacity, and statistics and probability save A LOT of time. For example, doing strawmen fallacies is useful. It allows you to filter through a lot of crap before investing time in digesting whether what that person said makes sense or not. If you would go into any conversation with a blank state of "Let's analyse the logic here" Good luck with that.
So we adopt shortcuts. What shortcut is he doing? "I'm like you" is indeed establishing commonality. The person is saying "I get where you're coming from, i've been there, so I understand at least some reasons why you currently think that way." This is useful if the person is being honest because it let's you know that this person might be saying something more valid than if they had no idea where you're coming from. It means they were once in your position, and something made them switch. It's different than if they never had been in your position. They never had to think anything through. So knowing this is useful. This saves time. Is it fool-proof? Not really. People can lie, or might have not thought that much about it anyway, but like I said people are not robots, and we can't analyse each argument like if we were one.
So rather, let me also help make a shortcut and your argument more clear: Don't call out this behavior, which from an honest person is good, call out what you're actually thinking that he's doing - that he's trying to manipulate readers. Why you would think that, I don't know.
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#927Earlier quoted context omitted.
But you haven’t verified little understanding and crypto proponents never do. It’s always “skeptic of crypto = little understanding”. You’re doing that exact thing here.
I build dApps and solidity contracts with hundreds of millions of USD in TVL. But that's besides the point. It's not a contest of who's more knowledgeable, I'm arguing against ignorance through quick judgements and assumptions
Yes, but you're arguing that against someone -- someone whom you haven't shown is making "quick judgements and assumptions". You're just assuming that.
That is the problem GP was pointing out: Crypto-"currency" proponents always jump to that conclusion. Stop doing that.
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#928Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see more and more of this attitude these days: "Stop spreading disinformation. Educate yourself" A useful contribution would be to point out how exactly the GP is wrong. I can imagine the current international banking system get upgraded with a blockchain like technology such that you don't need a central bank of central banks. But the web3 guys simply want to compare detractors to luddites
my argument isn't that the GP's information is wrong per se, but that gross oversimplification through slapping labels like "scam" and "bullshit" against the merits of a technology is blind, just as blind as people who worship the blockchain. my argument is for us to make our cases in an enlightened and civilised way instead of calling out names
Until somebody does, the null hypothesis remains that it is. (Use some cuter name if that makes you feel better, but it is what it is.)
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#929Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or, it's a slippery slope that only leads to keeping all your BTC/ETH and missing out on what getting scammed 20 times a year feels like.
Strange, I've managed to do all of that without being needlessly cynical.
Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain
#930Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a dangerous attitude because it has a paternal edge to it. Any “enlightenment” naturally leads to seeing others as unenlightened.
it is dangerous to say that you have changed your mind about something?