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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#171

Post by cpach »

redisman wrote: post #154
cpach wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I understand your point – therefore I would like to take this opportunity to channel something that 'patio11 wrote on Twitter many years ago: “Do not send in a job application before you have an actual human being who has expressed enthusiasm for reading or forwarding it.”[0] I believe this is sound advice, and the pitfalls you mentioned was probably the reasons that he gave this advice. [0] https://twitter…

I’ve gotten many good jobs with a “cold” application. If you have a fairly solid background the hearing back rate is easily over 50% for those

That’s great! But many people never hear back from cold applications, so that’s why I felt the need to mention that quote.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#172

Post by gjvnq »

Jenk wrote: post #160

I actually use the resume as yet another insight into the candidate. Did they send me a bland shopping receipt of skills and experiences or put some thought into the layout and visuals? Have they created a firehose of information that I will need to fight against to get the relevant information, or have they drafted some easy to read, but not too short, notes, etc?

How about having an XML file with all the stuff and a fancy PDF with the important stuff?

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#173

Post by indymike »

laumars wrote: post #129
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

Unfortunately the lack of a standardised format hasn’t stopped technology from being developed which automatically reviews CVs before they hit a human. The tech is already out there. The problem we have currently is that some CVs fail that review because they’re in a format that the tools cannot parse. If you’re CV is strong but you’re seeing fewer responses despite having a prettier CV compared to your peers, then t…

> The problem we have currently is that some CVs fail that review because they’re in a format that the tools cannot parse.

My company (we have software for responding to applicants in real time... think apply... instant conversation with a human recruiter) did a study of about 1,200 resumes and found that 14% of resumes had inaccuracies that would cause them to be screened out... and about 9% of resumes were in a unparsable format. A lot of the screening we see out there is really bad - mostly text search looking for key phrases like specific colleges, specific employers or specific skills. If you are imagining indexing resumes with elastic search and making queries, that may actually be better than state of the art which is usually something that turns into a SQL query.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#174

Post by vanusa »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away.

This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" needs to end, and it needs to end soon.

My belief is that it will. But until it does, companies that run crappy ATSs (like there's any other kind) deserve the buzzword-gurgling, keyword-dropping candidate pool get. And developers who get "rejected" by these companies should be grateful for the sublime gift of this rejection -- and for the opportunity to laser focus on companies and teams that use their heads to hire, rather than a fleet of bots.

Snark aside - hiring managers that actually read resumes (and yes, actually at least skim each and every one -- really it ain't that hard) are golden to work for (other factors being equal). Really, you don't want to waste your time with companies that have drunken the ATS kool-aid. Really you don't.

That said, however:

HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye.

It's "Node.js" with a dot. If you spell it "nodejs", that's a serious red flag and you shouldn't be surprised if it gets you automatically discarded -- even by a human reviewer.

That's what resumes used to be, after all -- a kind of a take-home test where you really do have enough time (and perfect knowledge) to get everything 100 percent right. And also a test of your awareness of the fact that, yes, in critical business communications at least -- this level of correctness does matter, and it matters a lot.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#175

Post by darkengine »

redisman wrote: post #154
cpach wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I understand your point – therefore I would like to take this opportunity to channel something that 'patio11 wrote on Twitter many years ago: “Do not send in a job application before you have an actual human being who has expressed enthusiasm for reading or forwarding it.”[0] I believe this is sound advice, and the pitfalls you mentioned was probably the reasons that he gave this advice. [0] https://twitter…

I’ve gotten many good jobs with a “cold” application. If you have a fairly solid background the hearing back rate is easily over 50% for those

I have to agree, I have a lot of respect for McKenzie but this advice seems unwise. I've landed four jobs (including my longest-lasting gig to date) by sending in resumes to job listings without knowing anyone internally.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#176

Post by saratogacx »

ghaff wrote: post #37
MattGaiser wrote: post #12

I have had a lot of success with "September 2019 - September 2020." Seems to work fine in nearly every case.

Note that there is some number of people who feel pretty strongly about obfuscating their age. I'm not sure what to feel about it personally but it's understandable.

As one of the other replies has stated that trimming the older stuff from your resume can help. I took a variation on that by going into detail with jobs for the last 10 years or so and having a simple list of other places I've worked and what the job titles were. There's also a linkedin url which has the expanded version if the reader is interested in going back more but it let me keep my resume to a single page, single sided, summery of the "professional me".

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#177

Post by gnopgnip »

democracy wrote: post #132
cpach wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I understand your point – therefore I would like to take this opportunity to channel something that 'patio11 wrote on Twitter many years ago: “Do not send in a job application before you have an actual human being who has expressed enthusiasm for reading or forwarding it.”[0] I believe this is sound advice, and the pitfalls you mentioned was probably the reasons that he gave this advice. [0] https://twitter…

That's a good advice but probably for the top X percent in their industry who have a luxury to choose their employer - not everyone is in this position.

It is easier than ever to contact a recruiter who works for the company on linked in instead of applying without any kind of referral

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#178

Post by madrox »

The short answer is...there are many universal data formats for resumes [1]. Longer answer is that actually coming up with a universal data format that encompasses all the nuances of all fields that use resumes is actually HARD and no one wants to halt their hiring process long enough to solve that problem. Longest answer is that if you put your work history, education, and a title in a PDF, then you already are conforming to a universal data format...just not in the way you may be thinking, and data parsing is not the hardest problem in the hiring process.

Until choosing candidates actually becomes automated, no one will care enough to do this.

1: https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#179

Post by digitalsushi »

vanusa wrote: post #174
moralestapia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

Google has 411m hits for Node.js and 66m for nodejs. I'd guess somewhere in the 66 million people calling it nodejs, we could find a real diamond in the rough if we heard them out at the next interview!
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