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The Zen of Drinking Alone

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Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#271

Post by coldtea »

Szpadel wrote: post #228
rainonmoon wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stylish about being an alcoholic, but people often conflate the two because plenty of prominent, stylish people were also alcoholics. Drinking didn't make them stylish, and anyone who thinks getting lit will turn them into Keith Richards is probably a massive burden on everyone who has to put up with them.

Some people could consider drugs in the same way, just look how many celebrities do/did drugs. And many of them was famous to death thanks to drugs (as they died young, but this point like to be omitted)

>as they died young, but this point like to be omitted

Why "like to be omitted"? It's actually part of the allure.

The slogan was "Live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse".

Not "Eat kale, be productive, use a task management program, live to 100".

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#272

Post by shakes_mcjunkie »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #217
tempestn wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've hypothesized that a unique problem with unhealthy eating habits compared to other addictions is that you have to eat. I would think at least with something like alcohol or nicotine, what you need to do as an addict is fairly simple (which of course is different from easy). But you can't just cut out food entirely, so it's a much more complex issue trying to eat in a healthy manner. Especially since even being to…

It'd be near impossible to become obese (or remain obese) if you just cut out sugar and processed foods. Nobody ends up in an electric scooter by pigging out on vegetables and chicken breasts. If you want to get shredded you'll have to do much more, of course, but if you just want to look and feel like a normal weight human, it really doesn't have to be any more complex. Just as many alcoholics can't handle a glass o…

> It's a more hardcore lifestyle change, but it can also be a psychologically simpler ruleset to follow.

It's a hardcore change but "simple" to follow? Isn't that part of the problem? The physical and mental are tightly interwoven. Telling someone they should just eat vegetables and chicken breasts ignores all of the other problems, mental and physical, that could be leading someone to unhealthy habits. In fact, a "ruleset" like this could contribute to further psychological problems and then further physical problems. This is the issue with diets, they ignore all the other factors outside of food.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#273

Post by throwoutway »

okareaman wrote: post #8

I agree with everything in this article. Drinking alone is the best, particularly if you like to write while listening to music. The flights of fancy I used to go on! I wish I could still do it, but I found myself waiting for the liquor store to open up at 7:00 am to get rid of the shakes. Then when I tried to stop I couldn't. Long story short, after several rehabs, more stints in mental health lockup than I care to…

Can someone explain what Stanislaw ment?

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#274

Post by claudiawerner »

xlance wrote: post #52
Aloha wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very strict rules I follow for alcohol consumption, if for no other reason than I'm the son of a man who was a functioning alcoholic for most of his life. I've read the big book, and consider it a source of wisdom, even if I perhaps don't follow all of the tenants contained within. The serenity prayer, which is AA adjacent if not (now) directly part of the AA wisdom is my personal lodestar, it's great wisdom o…

I don't drink alone for the exact same reason. How some people can function while drinking every night is beyond my comprehension.

Personal anecdote: I don't drink during the day, only after 9:30pm. It started out as weekends only, i.e. Friday and Saturday. Then I started doing it on Sunday. Then Thursday. Soon enough, I was drinking every day of the week, only after 9:30pm. I'd stay up until about 1am or 2am, sometimes 3am. This worked fine, until I started having to attend work meetings at 9am on the dot. I wormed my way out of some with excuses about personal commitments (my manager understands that not everyone can be available at 9am on the dot).

I need about 150ml vodka and 3 beers to get to the state I want. It wasn't always that way, of course, but it escalated gradually. I don't sleep well, but oh well. It's worth it, in a way. I can forget about my troubles, my bad pay, and my work pressure by drinking and watching movies or playing video games at the same time.

The next day? Sometimes I wake up with a headache. Not often, now that I know exactly how much water I need to drink before I sleep to avoid that. But the next day is always normal and I'm pretty well functioning, if lazy and procrastinating. I just need a 20 min nap after 12pm and I'm pretty much set to function.

Will I stop? I don't know. These things on my mind may seem utterly trivial to some. I wasn't abused, I haven't lost anyone in my family, I live fairly comfortably. But I need to get my mind off those thoughts. I can go days at a time, even weeks, without feeling the need to drink, so long as I just forget about its feeling. But why would I do that? When I have a 2L bottle of vodka and an 18 back of 5% beers? With them, I can enjoy the night more than I would otherwise. That's got to be worth something, at least to me.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#275

Post by seadan83 »

wyclif wrote: post #207
nexuist wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one of the problems with alcohol and nicotine is that you also can't just cut them out entirely. Withdrawal symptoms are brutal and not compatible with modern 40 hour week jobs. Cutting out food, especially sugary ones, probably would bring about some subset of the same withdrawal symptoms...so the problems are more closely related than they appear, IMO (disclaimer that I have never been addicted to either so I…

Sure, if you stop you're going to struggle against withdrawal symptoms. As far as nicotine goes, the good news is that if you can stop for a week, the temptation dramatically decreases. If you can stop for two weeks, the residual nicotine has completely left the body and you shouldn't be feeling withdrawal symptoms. If you can be disciplined for just two weeks, you can kick the habit.

It took me 7 years to quit nicotine. The first two weeks were the toughest and every minute my mind was screaming at me to go smoke. The next three months were still constant cravings, all the time, all day. After six months cravings were once a day and easier to let go. The entire first six months were difficult.

It wasn't until about two years later until I would have several days without cravings.

10 years later, I get cravings maybe once every few months and they are easy to let go of. Two days ago I got into a Lyft and someone dropped a pack of cigarettes in the back seat. The temptation was moderate to take them.

I think in part the brain hardwires to confuse nicotine as a type of food. Do not eat for two days, and that is what a smoker feels like for the first 2 weeks. Do not eat fir a day and that is what the first 3 months felt like (all the time, constantly). Your mind is telling you that you will literally die if you don't resolve the urge.

I think this is why relapse is so high for nicotine. You have to be consistently strong every time for months to almost be hone free. During that 7 years I had relapses usually after days, a few times I made it a week or two, once I went 3 months, and had gone 6 months twice as well before relapse.

FWIW, a person just has to keep trying. I admitted that 1) I deeply loved smoking. It is amazing. 2) there is no such thing as one last cigarette. Relapse would likely occur, and when that happens, my cessation efforts would continue.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#276

Post by aidenn0 »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #268
d-yakovlev wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's not a solution in and of itself. It's useful to destabilize you from well-rehearsed thought patterns, though - and if you manage to hit the Ballmer Peak of soggy introspection, maybe you can manage to make some progress.

This sounds like an opportunity to put the beer money towards a therapist for the same effect.

Booze is much cheaper.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#277

Post by jolux »

mcbride811 wrote: post #254
mawadev wrote: post #239

Whenever I drink, it's all fun and I'm buzzed, feeling funny... Then it starts to make me melancholic. This feeling doesn't stop when the alcohol is out of my system a few days after. It takes me about 3-4 weeks to feel truly "normal" again... Can anyone relate to this or am I an alien?

I can relate! It's gotten to a point where I'm seriously considering if it's worth it at all. Sometimes I feel outright depressed after having had some drinks the night before, to a point where the observer in my mind is shocked at the dark thoughts I'm having. I have a fructose malabsorption and most drinks I enjoy (wine, cocktails) do have a huge amount of this sugar in them. I wonder if this might be one of the re…

Alcohol itself is a depressant and can lead to depression or make depression worse. It’s best to avoid it entirely if you have a history of depression, or at least take extreme care to watch your consumption of it and its relation to your symptoms.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#278

Post by Alky_throwaway »

donw wrote: post #49
Aloha wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very strict rules I follow for alcohol consumption, if for no other reason than I'm the son of a man who was a functioning alcoholic for most of his life. I've read the big book, and consider it a source of wisdom, even if I perhaps don't follow all of the tenants contained within. The serenity prayer, which is AA adjacent if not (now) directly part of the AA wisdom is my personal lodestar, it's great wisdom o…

What tools do you, or other HNers for that matter, have to share about breaking alcohol addiction? Especially covering the hard parts: what are the major hurdles to overcome?

High-functioning alky, here 6-10 9%+ cans of beer in an evening not a problem for me, day after day. On my days off I can start with the cans for breakfast. I 'preload' for social occasions, and time my 'sobriety' to be ok to drive.

Breaking the habit? Have the will to stop. That's both hard and easy. But you didn't ask the question because you don't want to carry on so there's a plus.

I drink as much regular milk as I can when I feel the urges: this is because whacking down beer after it just feels sloshy in the stomach: not unpleasant, just 'sloshy'. And pointless..it takes too long to get drunk.

So, I've pretty much banished the beer of late.

To keep away the demons - when I absolutely feel a binge coming on, I keep a mouthful of liquorice 26% alc in my mouth for as long as possible (as well as having had the milk).

Happy to say I've not been fucked up for well over two months now, and have done several stretches of 5-8-10 and a 14 days with zero alcohol in the last three months.

That's a success, as I've been pretty much drunk for the last 8 years.

And, I didn't stop to buy a crate of beer today - there's none in the house, either.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#279

Post by acjohnson55 »

dilap wrote: post #264
acjohnson55 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol isn't special in this regard. There are many ways to shake oneself out of their standard mental cycles. There are lots of other drugs, and there are also plenty of non-drug techniques and experiences.

Yes, very fair point. (Alcohol is very lindy, though!) Any non-drug techniques in particular you've had good experiences with?

Guided meditation, hiking, hot yoga, intensely practicing music, watching challenging movies, skateboarding, scuba diving, and dance lessons come to mind.

Re: The Zen of Drinking Alone

#280

Post by tempestn »

hammock wrote: post #164
tempestn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was mostly thinking over the longer term.

There is no long term when it comes to compulsions

My point is that once you've managed to quit, what you need to do is simple: not have any. Doesn't mean it's easy, as there are still compulsions. But with food you can't do that—you still need to eat.
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