Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

amc.sas.upenn.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 134 posts

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#91

Post by boppo1 »

pessimizer wrote: post #81
roenxi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my understanding of 'defund the police' is to reverse what happened in that and many similar situations... Most comments explaining "defund the police" seem to settle on a different meaning, because I've seen one or two around and this one is new to me. It is best to take political slogans literally. When a large group of people gets together and starts chanting something, then votes someone in who promises to e…

> Most comments explaining "defund the police" seem to settle on a different meaning, Most comments explaining "defund the police" are from people who disapprove of it. The above is exactly how I've always heard it described. If they wanted to abolish the police, they could have just said "abolish the police."

I think you may be 'sane-washing':

https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/js84tu/how_did_...

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#92

Post by wahnfrieden »

rvense wrote: post #59

His point at the end about the impossibility of the word "un-Danish" is at least thirty years out of date, if not 80. "Udansk" is fairly frequently used, across the political spectrum, usually denoting some variation of intolerance, unwillingness to compromise, and narrowmindedness which are implied almost universally to be antithetical to Danishness. Even on the right, the phrases "Danish culture" and "Danish values…

fukuyama has more than a few ideas at least 30 years out of date with the field research

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#93

Post by SkyMarshal »

988747 wrote: post #19
retrac wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it kinda did though, didn't it? Being charitable for a second, I suspect it's more that history is "on pause" than ended, but I do get a feeling of almost timeless stasis. In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between natio…

> In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between nation-states. No ideologies of note have arisen or been cast down. Nothing historical has happened -- so the end of history. The period since 1992 was relatively peaceful, that's r…

> Since then we had "war on terrorism" and PATRIOT act, big financial crisis of 2008, rise of social media and surveillance state, and now COVID pandemic.

Don't forget rising authoritarianism again, which was one of the characteristics of Fukuyama's notion of the end of history, the fall of totalitarianism with the USSR.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#95

Post by beaconstudios »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #87
beaconstudios wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the "frankfurt school tried to invent a new communism" conspiracy theory. In actuality, "identity politics" is a big bracket of civil rights issues, some applications of which are good and some of which (the obvious example being cancel culture) are bad. But the whole point is to try to move towards an egalitarian society for queer, trans, ethnic, female etc people who have historically had the short end of t…

- “ This is the "frankfurt school tried to invent a new communism" conspiracy theory” - I am sure I could google exact quotes from I think Marcuse that states the opposite. Maybe his utopia wasn’t called communism, does it make any difference? Having said that, what I find more interesting is how Marxism is the only theory adopted by all of western humanities, because it is the only theory that defines what social pr…

Marxism isn't even an ideology though - Marx didn't concretely define what socialism and communism would look like outside of "collective control of the means of production", which really just means "factories are used for public rather than private benefit" (oversimplified but that's the gist). There's so many flavours of leftism that are completely mutually incompatible.

There are also alternatives positions: anarchism of many flavours, the singularity people (post-scarity ideology, effectively - I like Manna [1] for a practical example - it's functionally equivalent to "fully automated luxury communism"), the degrowthers, the urbanists, the social democrats, the solarpunk types, probably a bunch of others I've left out. There's no limit to the number of futures being imagined on the left. There's lots of future-imagining on the right too, but the qualifying trait of the right is that their future is the same as the past.

If you mean that western humanities have adopted Marxism as in the Soviet or Maoist visions of Marx - they haven't, by and large. They're mostly onto critical theory now, which is really interesting because it's a systems analysis of societal structures. Marx did a systems analysis of capital, so many critical theorists are also Marxists, but that's about as far as it goes in terms of their direct relation.

As far as "not working" goes - trade unionism brought us many workers' rights, the 40 hour work week, and is the only thing big businesses are really afraid of. Marxism-Leninism was a massive failure, but the anarchists called that one in the 1920s.

[1] https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#96

Post by pyuser583 »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #51
drewcoo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fukuyama isn't worried about facts. Factually, Obama and now Biden have deported far more people than Trump or Bush. Obama was even known as "the deporter in chief." https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/state-and-local-...

Here is a quote from Fukuyama's essay about exactly that: > Doing little to prevent millions of people from entering and staying in the country unlawfully and then engaging in sporadic and seemingly arbitrary bouts of deportation—which were a feature of Obama’s time in office—is hardly a sustainable long-term policy.

That’s a perfectly sustainable policy.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#97

Post by wahnfrieden »

oh_sigh wrote: post #77
N1H1L wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-college educated working people? Lots of Hispanics and Blacks in that group, who surprisingly aren't that keen on Trump

Trump got 30% of the Latino vote in 2020, more than republicans get historically.

so you agree that most are not keen

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#99

Post by wahnfrieden »

pyuser583 wrote: post #98
wahnfrieden wrote: post #9

Graeber tears this guy’s work apart in his new book and shows his work is incompatible with recent and old anthro research. Hard to take him seriously in other areas

Which book?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/arts/dawn-of-everything-g... a combination of archaeology and anthropology research, including very recent findings as well as reassessments of old research

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#100

Post by zozbot234 »

beaconstudios wrote: post #82
AzzieElbab wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not “unite”, unite in fight against oppression. Unite against your countrymen, the opposite of nationalism. Once proletariat in developed countries was deemed unsuitable as engine for revolution new ideologies aimed at urban blacks and college students were developed.

This is the "frankfurt school tried to invent a new communism" conspiracy theory. In actuality, "identity politics" is a big bracket of civil rights issues, some applications of which are good and some of which (the obvious example being cancel culture) are bad. But the whole point is to try to move towards an egalitarian society for queer, trans, ethnic, female etc people who have historically had the short end of t…

> This is the "frankfurt school tried to invent a new communism" conspiracy theory.

Who said anything about the Frankfurt School? Mao Zedong quite literally tried to invent a new communism, and his Mao Zedong Thought was subverted by Lin Biao and the criminal Gang of Four to launch the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution", which called on educated youth to "destroy everything that's old and bourgeois and counter-revolutionary" in Chinese culture and society. These ideas were quite impactful among Western lefist radicals in the late-1960s and 1970s, and a zombie version of that Western-Maoist ideology is what survives today as "wokeness".

Post reply on HN