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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#741

Post by hn_version_0023 »

cagey wrote: post #513
manuelabeledo wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "we don't need Senior Engineers; we have really smart management to do the thinking ahead etc. for the junior engineers" Wow, this bit makes so much sense. In my experience, most managers tend to add more layers, almost as a goal, but pay little attention to the seniority in such layers. For example, one of the managers I work with, restructured the organization in a way that would essentially put him at a VP level…

There was an article which I ran into thanks to HN a few months ago[1] that served to explain something I experienced at my employer 8(?) years ago: my role was abolished (legislated out of existence by HR and/or Finance); the role was unique to me, and I had held it very successfully for about 8 years at the time, but apparently, if you have a role that isn't found in some HR Dept or Finance Dept (or US Federal Dept…

In my experience, HR is the worst part of any company, specifically in terms of understanding humans. If you’re even slightly outside their notion of “normal” you’re fucked. These are the same people who jealousy guard their power while maintaining ageist/racist/sexist policy.

I’ve honestly never met a decent human who worked in HR.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#742

Post by webmaven »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #477
edgriebel wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^^^ yes! Your worker already has one foot out the door and has seen the greener grass outside the door. Is it really greener? Probably not but will be to them!

Ah, the green pasture. It always looks green until one steps on it.

> Ah, the green pasture. It always looks green until one steps on it.

The grass doesn't change color when you step on it, but you might discover that it's just astroturf.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#743

Post by magicroot75 »

I left my job at an ad agency this past week because I was asked to train and manage a team of three brand new employees within my first month on the job. All the while I was expected to "ship" advertising reporting and execution deliverables that I myself wasn't fully in the swing of doing.

For 6 months my managers told me "things will get better when the team starts to get comfortable." But at the same time they'd constantly critique the shoddiness of the work and not provide help. This left me to train and execute all at once. After that 6 months it was becoming clear that the attitude of management was going to put me in really tough positions. And it was unclear if and when my team would get to a level of competence where they were confident and able to execute the job on their own.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#744

Post by manquer »

humanrebar wrote: post #727
manquer wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the compensation does not impact basic lifestyle, then yes people do like to choose better /interesting jobs provided their hygiene needs are getting met, that is becoming harder every year. Rents/ Mortgages / College Fees are all climbing higher than compensation increases at the entry level. Even in tech there are a plenty of people paid less than 80 or 90k. On top of that these hefty student loans and high rent…

Compensation always affects lifestyle. If nothing else, it lets you spend your way to a negligible commute.

My point is not that compensation won't change lifestyle, it was that for basic needs lifestyle there is a compensation required ( i.e. living wage), people don't have luxury of choosing a more fulfilling job unless they are above that number.

---

Basic needs is somewhat commonly used term [1], while what is basic in one location or country is not same everywhere and there are degrees of subjectivity to it. It is quite politicized and US Census threshold of $25,000 /year for family of four is ludicrously low as defined today. [2]

While there can be arguments on what the number should be and even what constitutes basic needs, the idea of basic needs itself shouldn't be controversial

IMHO that in locations where traditionally you get a tech job it is higher than even 80-90k factoring in mortgages and student loans, things that are not included in U.S. Census Bureau methodology.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_needs

[2] The reasons for such low bar is political, the methods used reflect that, one example is using a single number nationally is an insidious choice. Cost of Living in NY or the Bay Area,CA does not compare to say rural Montana . A sizable portion of the population lives in high density high cost of living parts of the country (jobs are there) and the number does not reflect that or is weighted by where the population actually live. There are plenty of other criticisms, on what is being included with what weight etc.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#745

Post by philsnow »

ethbr0 wrote: post #322
AlwaysRock wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was playing a board game with my 7-year-old niece recently. She negotiates the same way most companies do. She holds the line firmly until her bluff is called, and then backtracks quickly once it's too late. The biggest différance is my 7-year-old will learn, while companies will continue to make the same mistakes.

I highly support playing negotiation and/or lying+consequence board games with children. The skills are lifelong, and the stakes are much lower than when they have to exercise them in the real world. Coup [0] and Love Letter [1] are both easy entry and quick play examples. Also, I got in the habit of making my kids negotiate their own payment for household tasks. With agreement based on the skill with which they do s…

What part of Love Letter has negotiation or lying(+consequences)? In my house it's nearly strictly deduction.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#746

Post by hinkley »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #186
protonimitate wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened to me at my last company. I was over worked, wore too many hats, and was paid significantly less than my team mates who were more junior than I was (and had less responsibility). I had a handful of conversations that never amounted to anything. As soon as I put in my notice with a new offer in hand suddenly I was able to "set my price". I left for other reasons as well, but it really shone a light…

It's really hard to justify with management. Instead saying "X left, we need extra budget to replace it" will often work. It's idiotic and expensive for the company but what can you do.

You get what you measure, and the only thing they know how to measure is negative outcomes.

You can't prove that giving me an extra 5k made me stay long enough to pay it back at >= our revenue targets.

The semi-healthy version I see play out is when people who want to be better use the loss of a customer or a coworker as fodder for pushing their agenda. Essentially it's one class of teachable moment. People learn from pain when nothing else works, and you can amplify or dull that sense of pain.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#747

Post by hinkley »

myownpetard wrote: post #384
davewritescode wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I gave my verbal notice, suddenly there was immediate backpedaling and said maybe something could be worked out. I declined because I don't negotiate like that. If you mismanage a negotiation, there is no do-overs just because you overplayed your hand. The trust is broken. Good for you! This is something I always tell junior engineers who are looking for ways to negotiate for something (usually pay and/or prom…

The only way to know the price of your labor is to interview and see what the market says. Companies are happy to have a non-competitive monopoly on your labor where they can unilaterally set the price. I think engineers (or anybody really) should try to get an offer or two every couple of years to anchor the price of their labor. Otherwise you leave yourself with a constant information asymmetry with your employer.…

> The only way to know the price of your labor is to interview and see what the market says.

There are other ways to infer your value. Taking longer vacations, especially off season, can illustrate to people what it's like not to have you around. If they don't miss you, it's time to move on. If they do, it's time to remind your boss.

I knew one guy who was a career employee for a Fortune 500 company, he just moved around every five years, but this guy had the ballsiest negotiation tactic I've ever seen. When it was time to discuss a raise, he'd wear a suit to work and take two hour lunches. In one case he didn't even have time to talk to his boss before his boss approached him with a raise.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#748

Post by hinkley »

ftlio wrote: post #400
daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

Every time I leave a job, there's suddenly the money I was asking for available. If someone was asking for a raise and you couldn't give it to them, and then they turn in their notice, and then there's onus to retain them at their original ask, the only thing to say is "congrats, we definitely regret not making things work for you here".

Some people take "If you don't have time to do something right, you have time to do it over." as a task list.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#749

Post by skinkestek »

HideousKojima wrote: post #265
diob wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.

Strong disagree for me. I'm starting a new job in less than two weeks, but the current job I'm leaving has been the best so far in my career. Wasn't perfect by any means but it exceeded most of my expectations by far. My new job is paying 60% more than my current job, that's my reason for switching and not much else.

Late, but I will note that the more people pay the nicer they treat you and the less they expect from you.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#750

Post by robbmcm »

marcyb5st wrote: post #451
bastardoperator wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fortunate enough to be paying off my house next year and strongly considering an early retirement. Granted I'm in my 40's, I just yearn to work on something I can poor my heart and soul into even if it fails. My dream is to write a video game and the only thing prohibiting that is lack of time. I've done an IPO, I've worked for FAANG/MAMAA, I've done keynotes at conferences, I've been an IC, Manager, Director. I…

I relate so much to this. Currently working at Google and I'd like to work on something that I care about. However, I still am in my early 30s and I don't think I have enough saved to do that yet even considering that GOOG went almost 6x since I was hired.

This thinking is a profound illusion I fell into. You might be surprised how far that money goes. And you also have the skills for more money to come in easily. You also probably spend way more than you need to survive.

Particularly if you don't have a family. You get one life. Take the leap.

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