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Google Flight Search

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Re: Google Flight Search

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents are just one way to be evil. Another way to be evil might be to let Canadian companies advertise illegally to sell prescription drugs in the US. From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/24/google-settles-phar... "Investigators snared Google's ad system by creating seven undercover websites offering prescription drugs to be sold without a prescription or the completion of an online medical questionnaire, Mar…

Google is not law enforcement and thank god for that. Unlike apple which strives to be the moral leader of the world that nobody needs. What google did here was illegal and it paid the price for it, but I don't see anybody getting directly harmed by google's decision, it was not google selling the drugs themselves or that the drugs were not upto the standards. Besides by the same reasoning google should block all the…

So let me get this straight. Protecting your IP with legal patents is evil. Willfully and knowingly getting paid to advertise illegally distributed prescription drugs is fine and dandy.

Clearly Google can do no evil, because everything they do is good in your eyes. Next thing you'll tell me that collecting advertising for child porn, hitmen, or crack is fine too. They don't make moral judgments. Except in China when they're having problems -- then they're suddenly all about morality.

I love all the jerk-wad Google apologists downvoting this. Few companies I can stand less than this self-righteous company and its blind followers.

Re: Google Flight Search

#222
When are people going to stop solving this problem and start building super sonic airplanes like the concord? The airline industry moves backwards in technology and trying to build a flight search engine to wrap around it is really a band-aid to the real situation. If I could get to Vegas in half the time, or even a quarter of the time (currently takes 4 hours, could take 1 in supersonic jet) I would pay at least double price for a ticket, and I wouldnt even need a seat.

My point is if you fly coach especially with Delta they treat you like a slave and stuff you with almost zero space to move (I am american, but not obese (5'9, 200lb). Forget flight search engines I can find a flight, make a me a faster more tolerable flight, you are friggin GOOGLE!

Re: Google Flight Search

#223
post #194

It’s rather powerful: as long as the origin airport is one of those shown on the map, and the destination airport is reachable via a domestic flight on one of the major airlines (AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, F9, UA, US), the search results come back instantaneously. Multiple origins and destinations (up to five of each) are supported as well: http://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX,SFO,SEA,LAS,DEN;... And the results stil…

I would think the limiting factor is availability. You can pre-compute valid fares between cities super-fast with sufficient computing power, but you're still (somewhat) limited by the rate at which you can update availability, which _still_ has to be polled from airline systems (to some degree) and can't give you answers in One of the bits ITA/QPX got really right was smart availability caching ( http://hasbrouck.or…

Expanding on this, one of the things ITA/QPX comes with is a dirty big availability cache that's constantly being primed (and paid for) by their customers (ie: Kayak, Orbitz, et al), who are now ironically not getting any traffic from Google :)

And they have this: http://itasoftware.com/pdf/BrochurePDF_DACS.pdf

Re: Google Flight Search

#224
post #20

Internally, this has been around for a little while (disclaimer: I work for Google but not on anything related to this). What continues to impress me about Google is: 1. Just how quickly this was built (really, it was quick); and 2. Google wants you to use our services because they're compelling not because we don't give you any other choice (ie "Don't be evil"). Sure there are limits to what it currently does but I…

ITA Software, acquired by Google in the last year, has always had this functionality available at [1]. In fact it is more full featured with ability to search international flight and a number of other options. There are even apps for iphone and android. This functionality pales in comparison to what is available there. I do not see the point of building this rather than have people use what is better and currently available.

[1] http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

Re: Google Flight Search

#225
Game over.

Disclaimer: This is a throwaway account. I'm a person who has had a travel startup. I've decided to halt, once Google has finally acquired ITA Software.

Travel is one of the world's largest industries (~5th), and online sales are its significant part (~10-30%, depending on the market), growing strongly. Online travel agencies (OTA) are among the few companies on web that get real money (~$150 per sale) from customers (it is relatively easy to make serious revenue).

Online travel sales consist mostly of flight bookings, and hotel reservations.

On these markets, there are roughly three categories of players. Airlines and hotels _provide_ the inventory, that is flights and hotel rooms. Computer reservations systems (GDS) _manage_ the inventory. Online travel agencies _sell_ the inventory.

Specifically, there are thousands of airlines and hotels (e.g. Hyatt, Lufthansa). However, there are only three major GDS operators in the US and Europe (i.e. Amadeus, Sabre and Travelport), as well as only few big OTAs (i.e. Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz, Priceline, Hotels.com, and Opodo).

Few decades ago, before Internet, airlines and hotels were unable to sell inventory on their own. It definitely takes more time to set up an office than a connection between two airports. Thus, it made sense to use travel agencies for this purpose.

Over time, airlines and hotels became also unable to manage their inventory. Synchronization of reservations between thousands of third parties is a non-trivial task, not a core competency of involved companies. Thus, it made sense to use a middle man.

That's what GDS systems do. They manage inventory, what includes reservations (PNR), its availability, prices, and exchanging data with others. As far as I know, right now, airlines and hotels pay them for the service, and for each reservation made (~few bucks).

Internet has complicated things a bit. Travel agencies are no longer so vital, as both airlines and hotels are able (at least, they think so) to sell the inventory on their own. Unfortunately, they were too slow again, and OTAs has emerged meanwhile (Expedia), giving the second youth to GDS companies.

The ecosystem is like an old marriage couple, although a threesome. Each party hat hates each other, but there's no other way around. To oversimplify a bit, OTAs have _customers_ (traffic), GDS systems _manage_ the inventory (with airlines, hotels, and OTAs) and both airlines and hotels _provide_ the inventory, after all.

From time to time there's an affair. Low-cost airlines try to distrupt the market by selling tickets so cheaply partially because they sell them directly. Major OTAs, like Expedia, partially grow to a GDS category. Some airlines or hotel chains withdraw from GDS systems, and return eventually with negiotiated better fees. However, it's mostly business as usual.

Today, if you want to start an online travel agency you have to speak with a GDS company. Depending on your market, it might be Amadeus, Sabre or Travelport. After a long selling process, you get access to the system, and you can start selling the reservations.

What's important, though, nearly all systems used today were created a decade, or two, ago. As core competency of GDS companies is in selling, then, as far as I know, they outsource the software evelopment to third parties, and it's not that easy to innovate on a critical part of the world's infrastructure.

What you end up with, then, is an access to an undocumented API that lets you to search, and manage your reservations. Insiders are used to the quirks, like waiting few seconds until you get the response, random issues, or hinting the system so you get a better response than others. Importantly, you're actively discoured to cache the data, as the prices change rather frequently.

The critical part here is search. It's a mathematically non-trivial problem to very quickly find rates within thousands of connections, definitely beyond technical know-how of GDS operators, airlines and hotels. ITA Software has managed to get access to the inventory and while, as far as I know, they do not sell resevations, they've created a much better (faster) search.

Meanwhile, few years ago, metasearches (e.g. Kayak, Hipmunk) emerged. Smart folks have realized that the competition is on price, customers look for a single place to compare prices, and operate under assumption that what really counts is traffic. From both customers and metasearch perspective, it does not make that big difference where do they buy the reservation from, an OTA or directly from an airline.

So, here we are today.

As a beggining travel agency, you likely have to pay annually for access, and for each request made, especially if you exceed the quota negotiated with the GDS company. Few years ago you were able to make profit by incurring a transaction fee to each ticket sold, but now transaction fees are nearly non-existent, and it's more frequent to rely on provisions from GDS companies, and, sometimes, airlines.

What's your competetive advantage? Basically, you cannot provide much better product than your competitors, as everyone relies on the similar legacy GDS system that returns the flight details rather slowly. Most of the time, only choices are either to show the results a bit differently, or bet on more trustful brand.

The focus is on efficiency. Profit per ticket is so slim, so cost of customers acquisitions is what really matters. OTAs, metasearches and, increasingly, airlines, together with hotels, master SEM, SEO, and other forms of advertisement (newsletters, banners). They live and die by the numbers. If you've figured out how to scalably make $1 more profit on each reservation made, you're covered for some time. The novel methods are, obviously, eventually realized by others, too.

In this race to the bottom there's one clear winner. Google's AdWords is a major source of traffic for all parties, and I bet that they already make the biggest profit off each reservation made. Once Google has acquired ITA Software, they now have both traffic and the inventory.

Re: Google Flight Search

#226

When are people going to stop solving this problem and start building super sonic airplanes like the concord? The airline industry moves backwards in technology and trying to build a flight search engine to wrap around it is really a band-aid to the real situation. If I could get to Vegas in half the time, or even a quarter of the time (currently takes 4 hours, could take 1 in supersonic jet) I would pay at least dou…

Drag (and hence power required) is roughly proportional to the square of the velocity. You want to go twice as fast? You better be willing to pay (at least) 4x the ticket price. And since most people want cheaper tickets over flight time, you'll have to pay even more to compensate for the lack of economies of scale.

Computer efficiency still is rapidly moving up. Airplane efficiency is near its limits.

Re: Google Flight Search

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is not law enforcement and thank god for that. Unlike apple which strives to be the moral leader of the world that nobody needs. What google did here was illegal and it paid the price for it, but I don't see anybody getting directly harmed by google's decision, it was not google selling the drugs themselves or that the drugs were not upto the standards. Besides by the same reasoning google should block all the…

So let me get this straight. Protecting your IP with legal patents is evil. Willfully and knowingly getting paid to advertise illegally distributed prescription drugs is fine and dandy. Clearly Google can do no evil, because everything they do is good in your eyes. Next thing you'll tell me that collecting advertising for child porn, hitmen, or crack is fine too. They don't make moral judgments. Except in China when…

What you might be seeing is the response of intelligent people who make up their own minds, and who consider Google overall to be much less evil than, oh, I dunno, MicrosoftOracleAppleFacebooketc? At least they have a bold statement that people like us, the media and their own employees will measure them up against, every hour of every day. Whether they always unfailingly measure up to it isn't as important as having it there. Especially for a profit-driven company that has unending opportunities to get just a bit more evil.

Re: Google Flight Search

#228
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said profit was the "first" motivation. You haven't even justified that. Saying that a corporation has to at least break even to avoid being a charity is a far cry from your previous grandstanding. Just because a corporation has to make money doesn't mean that money is the "first" motivation for every decision. It doesn't explain why Google (not Sergey, Google) pulled out of China.

Um...they chose to go into China in the first place, and they didn't do it for charity work. A lot of people thought that was pretty evil. In any case, the parent doesn't have to justify anything, because he's stating a relatively well-known argument: in the US, there's an obligation for corporate executives to maximize shareholder value. This point is debated ( http://www.linkedin.com/answers/law-legal/corporate-law…

[deleted]

Re: Google Flight Search

#229
post #20

Internally, this has been around for a little while (disclaimer: I work for Google but not on anything related to this). What continues to impress me about Google is: 1. Just how quickly this was built (really, it was quick); and 2. Google wants you to use our services because they're compelling not because we don't give you any other choice (ie "Don't be evil"). Sure there are limits to what it currently does but I…

Just curious... how quick it was? (2-days for coding and 2-months for ideation??)

Re: Google Flight Search

#230
post #75

If your startup is involved with search aimed at the consumer market, watch out...Google is coming. In a few weeks/months Google will be featuring this search result when you type "nyc to sfo" and take a big bite out of orbitz, kayak, and whoever's lunch that's in this space. EDIT: The counterargument to this, is that orbitz, kayak, and friends are some of the heaviest purchasers of PPC ads. So Google be at risk of c…

> If your startup is involved with search aimed at the consumer market, watch out...Google is coming. Possibly... However sites like hipmunk will be used as a comparison in so many press articles and blog posts when google starts pushing this. Many start ups have won against google. Google Notepad & Evernote, Google Wave & Twitter, Google Ride Finder & Uber etc... .. but I still wouldn't want to be in this space righ…

Not entirely sure how you're equating Google Wave and Twitter.
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