Live data from Hacker News

Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

amc.sas.upenn.edu

11–20 of 134 posts

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#11
post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

He gives a summary of 20th century politics that doesn't include fascism, and makes the Cold War sound like it was a battle between "small government" and "worker's rights". He says outright that nationalism on the political right is a "redefinition".

This is so bizarre I can only assume I'm reading it wrong.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#12
post #11
post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

He gives a summary of 20th century politics that doesn't include fascism, and makes the Cold War sound like it was a battle between "small government" and "worker's rights". He says outright that nationalism on the political right is a "redefinition". This is so bizarre I can only assume I'm reading it wrong.

He also ignores all the material demands of the groups involved in identity politics, as if they don't intersect (A LOT!) This is inane.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#13
post #3

Also Francis Fukuyama: history ended in 1992.

Well, it kinda did though, didn't it? Being charitable for a second, I suspect it's more that history is "on pause" than ended, but I do get a feeling of almost timeless stasis.

In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between nation-states. No ideologies of note have arisen or been cast down. Nothing historical has happened -- so the end of history.

From what I've read, a lot of people felt similarly in the late era of the Pax Britannia. (Which is a big part of why I think it's just "on pause".)

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#14
post #13
post #3

Also Francis Fukuyama: history ended in 1992.

Well, it kinda did though, didn't it? Being charitable for a second, I suspect it's more that history is "on pause" than ended, but I do get a feeling of almost timeless stasis. In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between natio…

Are you aware that he admitted that he was wrong? I believe he wrote a book on it.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#15

I have no earthly idea how "identity politics" is related to the demise of the arab spring. In as far as it may relate to the rise of authoritarianism in Eastern Europe (Poland and Hungary), it is by being easy foil for Victor Orban and his ilk (cf. "LGBTQ-free zones"). Even if one were to believe these neo-fascists wouldn't just find some other scapegoat, I don't see how it would morally justify a return to 1950s so…

It is equally confounding to me that you either: read the piece and still have these complaints, or you didn't and still feel authorized to respond in this way.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it kinda did though, didn't it? Being charitable for a second, I suspect it's more that history is "on pause" than ended, but I do get a feeling of almost timeless stasis. In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between natio…

Are you aware that he admitted that he was wrong? I believe he wrote a book on it.

Yes, it's pretty clear he was falsified. (China didn't go liberal! Shocker.) Doesn't mean his ideas weren't thought-provoking. But it's probably best to think of such political science as political philosophy.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#18
post #11
post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

He gives a summary of 20th century politics that doesn't include fascism, and makes the Cold War sound like it was a battle between "small government" and "worker's rights". He says outright that nationalism on the political right is a "redefinition". This is so bizarre I can only assume I'm reading it wrong.

I am not clear on your complaints here, maybe you are reading it wrong? To pick up on one thing: do you feel that the political right has, rather, sustained a consistent nationalistic bent for the past century? You dont feel like it has changed recently, and rather, perhaps, believing it has changed is misguided?

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#19
post #13
post #3

Also Francis Fukuyama: history ended in 1992.

Well, it kinda did though, didn't it? Being charitable for a second, I suspect it's more that history is "on pause" than ended, but I do get a feeling of almost timeless stasis. In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between natio…

> In comparison to the scale of ideological, political, economic, and social changes for the 19th and 20th centuries, essentially nothing has happened since 1992. No major nation has had a revolution. There have been no major wars between nation-states. No ideologies of note have arisen or been cast down. Nothing historical has happened -- so the end of history.

The period since 1992 was relatively peaceful, that's right. But that's not what Fukuyama's thesis was about, especially since he couldn't know in 1992 what would happen in the next 30 years.

Fukuyama's theory was that mankind has reached its optimal, stable state and that that the further historical changes are very unlikely, because why would people want to mess with perfection :) It was basically very naive optimism, I guess he was still in euphoria after Soviet Union collapse...

Since then we had "war on terrorism" and PATRIOT act, big financial crisis of 2008, rise of social media and surveillance state, and now COVID pandemic. Plenty of historical changes, most of them for worse.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#20
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He gives a summary of 20th century politics that doesn't include fascism, and makes the Cold War sound like it was a battle between "small government" and "worker's rights". He says outright that nationalism on the political right is a "redefinition". This is so bizarre I can only assume I'm reading it wrong.

He also ignores all the material demands of the groups involved in identity politics, as if they don't intersect (A LOT!) This is inane.

What are the material demands of those groups? There seems to be a general demand for special treatment and privileged legal status based on membership in their identity group, but symbolic issues seem very much at the center of identity politics.
Post reply on HN