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It’s not still the early days of blockchain

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Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#431

Post by meheleventyone »

mirzap wrote: post #416
meheleventyone wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. We got the Internet in the mid-90s and by that point all the utility was totally obvious. Even using services like Wireplay for online gaming showed the potential very clearly. As you note adoption of the Internet is way more tied up in adoption of home computing and the exponential expansion of that. It was a pre-requisite. Blockchain tech on the other hand has no pre-requisites blocking adoption, j…

You have massive hardware pre-requisites for adopting any decentralized technology. Syncing Bitcoin node takes days, Ethereum weeks. Storage is constantly expanding. I think we still don't have hardware requirements to enable end-users decentralized self-sovereignty. You have storage limits, as well as network limits. This needs to improve (and get cheaper) more than 10x to enable blockchain native (meta) world.

Right but those are largely self-inflicted limitations. The underlying hardware is capable of several orders of magnitude better performance.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#432

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

yashg wrote: post #352
3825 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using bitcoin I can send money to someone in Chi no a who's social rating was degraded by the CCP and who is forbidden from using banks How will they convert it into something they can use to pay rent and buy groceries? > Crime will exist forever and criminals will find ways to finance themselves anyway, so the use of cryptocurrencies for their operations is not really a factor. Does this make it easier for the wea…

> How will they convert it into something they can use to pay rent and buy groceries? Exactly my question. Exchanges where you can sell the crypto for real money are still regulated and require KYC. > My biggest concern about cryptocurrency is fees. High fees are required to pay for the insane electricity bills and specialized hardware. PoW cryptos are expensive and inefficient by design so there will always be more…

Black market p2p exchanges will rise inevitably.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#433

Post by auggierose »

staticassertion wrote: post #349
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also enables people to finance themselves despite tyrannical restrictions imposed by bad governments. Using bitcoin I can send money to someone in Chi no a who's social rating was degraded by the CCP and who is forbidden from using banks. This alone trumps any arguments against bitcoin. Crime will exist forever and criminals will find ways to finance themselves anyway, so the use of cryptocurrencies for their oper…

> It also enables people to finance themselves despite tyrannical restrictions imposed by bad governments. Using bitcoin I can send money to someone in Chi no a who's social rating was degraded by the CCP and who is forbidden from using banks. In no way does bitcoin being blockchain based enable you to do this better or more effectively. It's just because it's a less regulated currency.

Well, it cannot be regulated, because it is blockchain based. That's the whole point, isn't it.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#434

Post by [deleted] »

Galanwe wrote: post #417
gambiting wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And literally none of it, not a single step that you mentioned requires blockchain.

> And literally none of it, not a single step that you mentioned requires blockchain. Then tell me, where is this wonderful centralized database that tells me who owns which car? Blockchains are not just about decentralization, it's also about publishing the actual databases in the wild for everyone to see, because you have the guarantee that no-one can fake it. Sure, a lot of the use cases could be done with central…

[deleted]

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#435

Post by usrbinbash »

baby wrote: post #406
usrbinbash wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PoS blorkchains do not solve the first problem completely (they still require an obscene amount of power to do something that can be done way more efficient) but implement an entirely new kind of problem: The more tokens someone already had, the higher his chances in the "stake-lottery". Essentially, PoS makes sure that "he who has the gold makes the rules" becomes hardwired in the system, instead of only being a sid…

No they don’t. They’re pretty green.

"pretty green" is not a unit of measurement.

How "green" something is, is determined by how much resources one unit of what it does uses, compared to how much resources doing the same unit of work on an alternative system uses.

eg. a petroleum lantern produces light more efficiently than a campfire. However, neither of them is "pretty green" compared to a LED.

Compare the amount of energy per transaction required with a PoS system to the amount of energy required to do it with, say, a credit card.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#436

Post by Ekaros »

anonporridge wrote: post #17
xmprt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like even after zooming out and seeing the big picture, it's hard to imagine blockchain solving real world problems. Blockchains are good when there's a lack of trust and decentralization is absolutely necessary. There are very few problems that actually need a blockchain. Anything that has the government in the loop (like buying houses or property) is a non starter and anything that runs on centralized server…

You're right. And bitcoiners have been saying this from the very beginning of the crypto madness. A global, government agnostic money like bitcoin that no group of insiders and early adopters have unassailable control over, seems like the only likely candidate for something that needs a truly decentralized and trustless blockchain. The rest is hype.

And in practise not government or central bank controlled money is not practically desirable. The gold-bugs and crypto people might think it is, but there are very good reasons why no one is using gold standard anymore. It makes modern fiscal and financial policies impossible and probably leads to massive issues for everyone.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#437

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

staticassertion wrote: post #349
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also enables people to finance themselves despite tyrannical restrictions imposed by bad governments. Using bitcoin I can send money to someone in Chi no a who's social rating was degraded by the CCP and who is forbidden from using banks. This alone trumps any arguments against bitcoin. Crime will exist forever and criminals will find ways to finance themselves anyway, so the use of cryptocurrencies for their oper…

> It also enables people to finance themselves despite tyrannical restrictions imposed by bad governments. Using bitcoin I can send money to someone in Chi no a who's social rating was degraded by the CCP and who is forbidden from using banks. In no way does bitcoin being blockchain based enable you to do this better or more effectively. It's just because it's a less regulated currency.

Bitcoin being blockchain and a consensus algorithm to append it is what enables people to use it without asking for permission.

Permissionlessness is the main killer feature, and I dare you to find another way to implement it using some other method.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#438

Post by TekMol »

meheleventyone wrote: post #410
TekMol wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the pre-requisites are just as high this time. Just very different. At least you could buy a computer in the 90s. In my country, you cannot buy crypto anywhere. You have to go through some shady KYC process of a foreign company. Me and almost none of my friends are willing to do that. And the very few who do are not willing to sell crypto to the others "Uuhhh no, go make your own Coinbase account." The ba…

But crypto currencies are not the only potential use of blockchains right?

Having crypto currency is the equivalent of having a computer.

I am not aware of anything you can do in the new "cryptonet" as long as you have zero cryptocurrency.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#439

Post by freemanon »

magicjosh wrote: post #110
ryandamm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to see a "pro" for blockchain or NFTs that doesn't conform to the characterization you're trying to dispute. Care to offer one? I'm eager to learn.

I also want a writeup covering some examples of Bitcoin or Ethereum use that are relatable. This recent NYTimes piece takes that approach, though none of the examples are that impressive: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/style/what-can-you-actual... (Disclosure I own Bitcoin and Ethereum)

Blockchain and crypto are related yet distinct concepts. I was lining up for a PCR test in Thailand the other day, and it was a huge mess. The lack of streamlined systems between invoicing, identity verification, etc means very long queues, people running back and forth to get their documents printed. The testing scheme is private run but I assume it needs to interface with governmental departments (i.e. Immigration and the police) to initiate quarantine in case i'm positive, and change my eligibility status for travel outside the sandbox area if i'm negative, or to arrest me if i fail to take the test within the specified time.

I thought about why so many centralizsed systems failed, or failed to be built, for streamlining processes in the real world. I think that it's because typically such systems would be built on SQL databases and backend servers that are prone to hacks and downtimes, and the APIs built by different developers often cannot integrate with one another.

What if, instead of databases and custom APIs, a blockchain with smart contracts is used? What if we can also sign documents such as receipts with hashes that can be verified off-chain and off-line? We'd have a fault-tolerant, always-available systems, and also a "unified" protocol in which other systems can interface to.

Instead of having different databases and APIs that are hard to integrate with one another, a blockchain could be the central storage and transactions handler that different systems interface to.

The PCR test system would be something along the line of: - Booking through a smart contract, paying the PCR test fee, and obtaining a receipt signed by the contract in the form of a hash - Upon arrival in the test center, they check the validity of this signature offline by using a public key to verify your payment. - An identification service can keep a hashed version of your personal data on-chain. You can provide your name, DOB, place of birth etc, and this can be checked against the identification service by decoding the hashed data with a one-time key you generated

There's no DB that can be hacked or go corrupt, no BE servers that can be DDOS'd.

There are of course questions to be answered. But I see many use cases in my everyday life.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#440

Post by lawn »

ryandamm wrote: post #119

The central problem in this entire debate is two groups talking past each other. The skeptics say "what is it for?" expecting a detailed answer, and the response from crypto enthusiasts is vague and high level; most of what I hear is heavy on words like "revolutionize" and "decentralize" but very, very short on specifics. Or I get argument by analogy to other technologies. If I heard a single use case where blockchai…

A single use-case?

How about uncensorable donations? For example Wikileaks got blocked by banks and payment processors when they wrote about the war crimes the US committed.

The US could block the banks, but they could never block crypto donations.

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