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It’s not still the early days of blockchain

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Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#331

Post by neiman »

ulfw wrote: post #302
neiman wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. "Remotely send money" is a super hard thing to do. I literally just struggled for a month with a transfer that included 3 countries, none of them is English speaking. It required letters from banks, accountants, plenty of forms of different countries, translations, stuff which is lost in translation (the bank was unhappy with the word selection of a non-English speaker accountant, for example), different format…

But none of that needs Blockchain as a technical solution. E.g. my bank allows worldwide free SWIFT transfers in many many currencies. It's not hard to find out someone's name, bank account number and SWIFT code et voila... money sent. There's plenty of other solutions from Paypal to (Transfer)Wise etc. Saying "it can be done in 20 seconds with crypto" is really only half the truth. At the end of the day we all need…

> Saying "it can be done in 20 seconds with crypto" is really only half the truth. At the end of the day we all need fiat money.

Fair point.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#332

Post by dmitriid »

magicjosh wrote: post #205
wodenokoto wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Dubai, buying real estate with bitcoin is a real thing, and by the looks of it also a big thing. If nothing else, it shows that crypto has succeed in one of its goals: moving money between countries, without being detected/hindered by governments. I mean, I don't know who buys real estate with crypto, but I am assuming that people who live in dubai and have large crypto values are bullish on crypto, and won't wast…

Here's an article About Dubai putting its entire land registry on the blockchain: https://www.ccn.com/100-dubai-put-entire-land-registry-block...

Funny how you read that glowing announcement and realize that literally nothing in that announcement requires a blockchain.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#333

Post by democracy »

andreskytt wrote: post #294
tomputer wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Use cases like storing the history of a car on-chain, transparent supply chains, public voting... this all sounds interesting but never made it to product-market fit. Anything that does not exist natively on the blockchain doesn't need a blockchain at all. If a token on the blockchain would represent you as the owner of a car and one day someone steals your private key which represents your car ownership, that pers…

That said, blockchain-like technologies (ksi, more specifically) can be used to assure the integrity of databases storing the relationship between you and your car.

A good example of an imaginary problem!

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#334

Post by dmitriid »

darawk wrote: post #211
hubraumhugo wrote: post #33

I'm still very opposed to the idea of taking a technology and then searching a problem for it. Why? Back in 2017 during the first hype cycle, blockchain companies raised hundreds of millions with ICOs. I became very interested in the technology too, and some friends still work in this space. 4 years later in the web3 era, there is not a single product aside from trading/finance that got traction. Use cases like stori…

> I'm still very opposed to the idea of taking a technology and then searching a problem for it. So, you're opposed to the internet, then?

> So, you're opposed to the internet, then?

No. We're opposed to Juicero and Enron

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#335

Post by lottin »

neiman wrote: post #229
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to understand. You're saying that you wouldn't be able to perform online votes or surveys and remotely send money without a blockchain? Could you expand more on what functionality that the blockchain provides that the other solutions in this space (online surveys and remotely send money) don't?

Sure. "Remotely send money" is a super hard thing to do. I literally just struggled for a month with a transfer that included 3 countries, none of them is English speaking. It required letters from banks, accountants, plenty of forms of different countries, translations, stuff which is lost in translation (the bank was unhappy with the word selection of a non-English speaker accountant, for example), different format…

Is this money transfer system compliant with current regulations? Because if it isn't, you're comparing apples with oranges.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#336

Post by georgeecollins »

missedthecue wrote: post #270
cinntaile wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be the case?

Yeah it's difficult to see how this facilitates money laundering. Say you're a drug kingpin who has a billion in literal paper cash that you need to make appear legitimate. Somehow, you've got to do a billion dollars in cash to bitcoin transactions, but what's the point of buying middle eastern real estate with the bitcoin after that? Why not just rinse the bitcoin through a tumbler and sell it on an exchange and tel…

You may be right but let me explain why I think Bitcoin actually works well in this example for money laundering. You have cash and you buy bitcoin. US bitcoin exchanges probably do kyc (know your customer = laws / forms you file saying you know where the money comes from) but many offshore exchanges supposedly do not.

You could take your bitcoin and sell it on an exchange as you suggest but there are two problems with this. First, it's not that easy to sell a lot of bitcoin for real USD and the transaction costs can get high. Second, and more importantly, as money launder what you really want to do is take your dirty money in one jurisdiction and take it to another. Did you ever see Blow? Based on a true story. A US guy raised incredible money selling cocaine and stored it in a shady Panama Bank. The bank steals his money. What his recourse? If you are an oligarch in a corrupt country you want to get your money somewhere your government can't seize it. So why not take your bit coin and use it to buy real estate in Dubai? If you took your bitcoin and sold it in a way that ends up in a western bank, that bank is going to do kyc and defeats the whole purpose.

Obviously I have never laundered money and I don't really know. Tell me I am crazy.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#337

Post by neiman »

dmitriid wrote: post #328
tintor wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to trust each other. ie. No need to have a dedicated treasurer.

Ah yes. Unlike that recent issue with a smart contract that was "verified by community" and then drained all wallets of money.

Which one?

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#338

Post by beertoagunfight »

robjan wrote: post #307
Galanwe wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one day someone steals your private key which represents your car ownership, that person is now the owner of your car. Why take such a naive blockchain as example? You could very well have a proof of authority blockchain so that 3 notary have to sign a car transaction. You could also very well have revocation lists published on the blockchain by a further authority if keys are stolen. There are hundreds of ways to…

Who appoints the notaries?

This. I have never gotten a satisfactory answer to how centralization is prevented in such cases.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#339

Post by darawk »

dmitriid wrote: post #334
darawk wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still very opposed to the idea of taking a technology and then searching a problem for it. So, you're opposed to the internet, then?

> So, you're opposed to the internet, then? No. We're opposed to Juicero and Enron

Both of those things had very clear intended purposes at inception. Seems completely orthogonal to the question at hand.

Re: It’s not still the early days of blockchain

#340

Post by democracy »

neiman wrote: post #276
eterm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Remotely send money" is a super hard thing to do. Technologically it is not. Which is why anyone in the EU can instantly send money to anywhere else in the EU, for free, despite being a collection of 27 countries with dozens of different languages and legacy banking systems. The hurdles are legal and regulatory, not technical. Blockchain and new technology does not solve the underlying problem at all.

Part of the transaction I described (which was personal) involved a bank transfer between two EU states, and it's simply not true. It's not instantly, doesn't work 24/7 (a transaction made on Friday arrived on Tuesday), and you have to find plenty of tricks to avoid high fees and super bad exchange rates (EU has more than one currency, you know).

What's wrong with paypal?
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