YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#161

Post by brigandish » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 7:29 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #71

brigandish wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one route - that I also favour - but my favourite idea would be to give everyone access to the tools that FB et al use for moderation. If I don't want to see porn/politics/bots/cussing/sport/K-pop… then I want to be able to choose that, not the platform. They have all this data and the ability to shape the feed, give me that power. No need to stomp on free speech, no need to clumsily moderate. Of course, peopl…

> If I don't want to see porn/politics/bots/cussing/sport/K-pop… then I want to be able to choose that, not the platform. This would certainly be a welcome feature, but it doesn't really solve the problem. Suppose you want to see adult content, politics and cussing but you don't want to see bots. Nobody wants to see bots. Then their broken algorithm calls someone a bot who is not. Well, they're blocked from everyone,…

> Nobody wants to see bots. Then their broken algorithm calls someone a bot who is not. Well, they're blocked from everyone, because nobody wants to see bots. That's the same as the status quo.

I want to see some bots but not others, but still, I want the choice to be mine. That's the most important thing to me, choice, because it leads to control.

Aside from that, I don't mind their broken algorithm because:

a) The perfect is the enemy of the good

b) We agreed that I get to choose (whether I see bots and which bots/kind-of-bots I see)

For instance, why can I not given some kind of confidence level? Surely their algorithm gives a score, so then I could say "If you think someone is >= 75% likely to be a bot, don't show me them, otherwise, do".

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#162

Post by jcun4128 » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 7:57 AM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #150

usbqk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they recently changed the tos to blacklist all videos regarding hacking and similar stuff

Looks like it's buried several layers deep, and very poorly worded. You need to go from the Terms of Service [0], to the Community Guidelines [1], to the subsection on "Harmful or dangerous content" [2]. Once there, the wording of the guideline is as follows. > Hacking: Demonstrating how to use computers or information technology with the intent to steal credentials, compromise personal data or cause serious harm to…

This is interesting what if the content is for training/defense like "how to not allow sql-injection" or "how to avoid xss" etc

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#163

Post by manquer » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 8:42 AM UTC

maxltv wrote: post #155

A Grammarly team member but posting own thoughts to clarify some things. First, Grammarly has nothing to do with this suspension and does not have any problem with the videos in question, just as mentioned in the official HackerOne response. Second, this is not a hack or even a flaw. It is an attempt to use Grammarly for a NON-INTENDED purpose, that predictably did not work. Grammarly is not meant for anti-plagiarism…

The product that he is talking about it specifically their plagiarism checker[1]

Their own documentation says the product is also for teachers to enforce rules.

This poster keeps making the same incorrect claims in multiple places in this thread, even after the original author clarifed it to him.

[1] https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#164

Post by denton-scratch » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 9:12 AM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #154

denton-scratch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should have the right to free speech That's a legitimate opinion. I am of the view that rights are things that are granted by some authority, not something you acquire by simply existing. I envy the USA their constitutional protections on speech. But unless Google has made a grant of free speech rights on their platform, no such rights exist.

> I am of the view that rights are things that are granted by some authority, not something you acquire by simply existing. That's an interesting view, and not one that is supported by the US Constitution. > First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peace…

The US Constitution says those things, no doubt. But I'm not a USAian. Similar claims appear in the UN and European declarations of Human Rights. Whatever those documents say, I just don't think rights are things that exist objectively, independent of their declaration in some document.

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#165

Post by autobash » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

For anyone interested here is a test you can do on https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker

Will be detected as plagiarism

> But with ahab the question assumed a modified aspect. considering that with two legs man is but a hobbling wight in all times of danger; considering that the pursuit of whales is always under great and extraordinary difficulties; that every individual moment, indeed, then comprises a peril; under these circumstances is it wise for any maimed man to enter a whale-boat in the hunt? As a general thing, the joint-owners of the Pequod must have plainly thought not.

Won't be detected as plagiarism

> But with аhаb thе quеstiоn аssumеd а mоdifiеd аspесt. соnsidеring thаt with twо lеgs mаn is but а hоbbling wight in аll timеs оf dаngеr; соnsidеring thаt thе pursuit оf whаlеs is аlwаys undеr grеаt аnd еxtrаоrdinаry diffiсultiеs; thаt еvеry individuаl mоmеnt, indееd, thеn соmprisеs а pеril; undеr thеsе сirсumstаnсеs is it wisе fоr аny mаimеd mаn tо еntеr а whаlе-bоаt in thе hunt? аs а gеnеrаl thing, thе jоint-оwnеrs оf thе Pеquоd must hаvе plаinly thоught nоt.

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#166

Post by evilksandr » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

autobash wrote: post #165

For anyone interested here is a test you can do on https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker Will be detected as plagiarism > But with ahab the question assumed a modified aspect. considering that with two legs man is but a hobbling wight in all times of danger; considering that the pursuit of whales is always under great and extraordinary difficulties; that every individual moment, indeed, then comprises a peril;…

"The described behavior is a functionality limitation that does not affect the security and privacy of our product" they said.

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#167

Post by evilksandr » Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

maxltv wrote: post #155

A Grammarly team member but posting own thoughts to clarify some things. First, Grammarly has nothing to do with this suspension and does not have any problem with the videos in question, just as mentioned in the official HackerOne response. Second, this is not a hack or even a flaw. It is an attempt to use Grammarly for a NON-INTENDED purpose, that predictably did not work. Grammarly is not meant for anti-plagiarism…

Thanks for your detailed answer. Let me post my thoughts:

1. 3 years ago I conducted research on almost all online tools which check for plagiarism with free access or using a trial account. Tool, located with URL https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker was one of them because "Grammarly’s plagiarism checker can detect plagiarism from billions of web pages as well as from ProQuest’s academic databases."

2. I repeat research half a year ago and discovered, that at least 3 plagiarism checkers already have fixed the issue I described in my report, but not Grammarly.

3. I posted a case on HackerOne https://hackerone.com/reports/1282282 with the weakness type "Business Logic Errors", and did not mention "security" or "privacy".

4. Please, read again (and also look between the lines) everything that is described in the section "Impact" and my answer about the impact of the reported behavior.

5. You already have a software reviews company in your customers (I didn't know it while published my report). Imagine, that they will decide to automate plagiarism checking for all the reviews, and somebody starts to use the method I described. I will not continue this topic.

6. I posted a case to HackerOne with the intent to warn against this behavior.

7. After your team decided not to track this report as a security or major product issue, I asked permission to publish my report and got it.

8. My videos about it were on youtube for 4 months, but on Jan 5 youtube changed their ToS and on Jan 7 my channel was suspended.

So, I will try to appeal again to @TeamYouTube about my channel using your answer "Grammarly does not have any problem with the videos in question, just as mentioned in the official HackerOne response.", but think it will be a hard process.

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#168

Post by maxltv » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 2:22 AM UTC

manquer wrote: post #163

maxltv wrote: post #155

A Grammarly team member but posting own thoughts to clarify some things. First, Grammarly has nothing to do with this suspension and does not have any problem with the videos in question, just as mentioned in the official HackerOne response. Second, this is not a hack or even a flaw. It is an attempt to use Grammarly for a NON-INTENDED purpose, that predictably did not work. Grammarly is not meant for anti-plagiarism…

The product that he is talking about it specifically their plagiarism checker[1] Their own documentation says the product is also for teachers to enforce rules. This poster keeps making the same incorrect claims in multiple places in this thread, even after the original author clarifed it to him. [1] https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker

There is no separate product - it is a feature of the main product. Please point out where documentation says it's for enforcement because that will need to be corrected. It can help teachers educate students about plagiarism but it's not meant for enforcement. It's a student tool.

Here is the text from the linked landing page describing the plagiarism checker feature (emphasis mine):

Our free plagiarism check will tell you whether or not your text contains duplicate content. Our Premium plagiarism check highlights passages that require citations and gives you the resources you need to properly credit your sources.

This makes it quite clear that is an authoring tool, not policing tool. Plagiarism masking is not addressed by design. It's a trivial thing to code if there was a need but the company made a decision to stay out of plagiarism enforcement (at least for now).

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#169

Post by maxltv » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 2:26 AM UTC

evilksandr wrote: post #160

maxltv wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, Grammarly has nothing to do with this suspension or any problem with the videos in question. Second, this is not a flaw or a hack but an unsuccessful attempt to use Grammarly for an UNINTENDED purpose. Grammarly is not meant for anti-plagiarism enforcement. Grammarly aims to help users avoid accidental or unintentional plagiarism by highlighting parts that may need to be cited. So it does not attempt to deal w…

Grammarly has a separate plagiarism checker https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker which was in my report

Oleksandre, you got an official response that this is by design. I explained why. This is a landing page, not a separate product, and the description of the plagiarism feature clearly states it's not for policing:

"...Our free plagiarism check will tell you whether or not your text contains duplicate content. Our Premium plagiarism check highlights passages that require citations and gives you the resources you need to properly credit your sources."

Re: YouTube suspended my channel for a video with disclosed issue in Grammarly

#170

Post by maxltv » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 2:35 AM UTC

evilksandr wrote: post #167

maxltv wrote: post #155

A Grammarly team member but posting own thoughts to clarify some things. First, Grammarly has nothing to do with this suspension and does not have any problem with the videos in question, just as mentioned in the official HackerOne response. Second, this is not a hack or even a flaw. It is an attempt to use Grammarly for a NON-INTENDED purpose, that predictably did not work. Grammarly is not meant for anti-plagiarism…

Thanks for your detailed answer. Let me post my thoughts: 1. 3 years ago I conducted research on almost all online tools which check for plagiarism with free access or using a trial account. Tool, located with URL https://www.grammarly.com/plagiarism-checker was one of them because "Grammarly’s plagiarism checker can detect plagiarism from billions of web pages as well as from ProQuest’s academic databases." 2. I rep…

Yes, please feel free to mention that to Youtube. If it helps, I can get the company (Grammarly) to officially confirm that the videos are not a problem if Youtube needs a confirmation.

But I am absolutely certain this is by design, and that's why there was no change. It's not a policing tool but an authoring tool. What you described in #5 is not an intended use of the product and is a violation of TOS.