Live data from Hacker News

New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

tcd.ie

41–50 of 75 posts

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#41

Isn't this similar to dropout in machine learning neural networks? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilution_(neural_networks)

I was thinking something along those lines too. As if a baby starts with a fully connected network of many nodes, then over time experience strengthens some connections as others drop out. If the connections were to return to an evenly connected state everything would have been forgotten, but anything could then be learned as all capacity to learn has returned.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#42
post #34
post #28

My ex is a linguist, and she used to tell me about the “learning by forgetting” theory of the “phonological inventory” — which is a fancy way of saying “the sounds you can distinguish and produce.” The idea was that children were born able to distinguish all possible sounds, and over time forget the ones they are not exposed to. Interestingly she was a syntactician by training and would tell me that there are many pe…

Your comment, along with the article, confirm my biased beliefs that humans are less pattern matching machines than noise filtering machines. Pattern recognition is less about connecting dots than it is distinguishing and purging the unconnected. When that process goes awry, and we can’t discern disconnections, things like psychosis arise. Tangentially, it stimulates a connection to another though that sometimes flar…

> Pattern recognition is less about connecting dots than it is distinguishing and purging the unconnected. When that process goes awry, and we can’t discern disconnections, things like psychosis arise.

Making connections that aren't there, ie failing to purge the unconnected, could be psychosis. The opposite would be: Not making connections, ie purging the connected. That is called low intelligence.

High intelligence is often seen as making connections. Do intelligence and psychosis correlate? (And if you can make someone purge connections, are you lowering their intelligence?)

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#43
Another reason I think forgetting is so important to continuous learning is that if new ideas conflict with accepted ideas, it will be more difficult to integrate them. Like adding to a map or puzzle where the boundaries don't mesh. So by having fewer deeply held beliefs, new ideas are free to enter and coexist. You can also compartmentalize to some extent like superpositions of possibilities where each one can have new consistent information added without regard to how it conflicts with other possibilities. Not that I have a clue if this is a good example (or advisable) but a physicist could learn both loop quantum gravity and string theory and relate them both to understanding our world and keeping them separate could be helpful for learning.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#44
My own experience: I play guitar, I like to think I play very well and lots of people have praised my playing. I do it in bursts, spending lots of time playing and practicing and recording for a stretch of some months then I… don’t play at all.

Life makes that cadence happen as much as anything, but all of my significant strides forward in technique and creative breakthrough have come shortly after breaking long dry spells. And that’s not to say there haven’t been disappointing breaks where everything feels cumbersome or fruitless. But all of my noticeable improvements playing have come after a significant stretch of time not playing, even if they were followed by significant time practicing.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#45

My own experience: I play guitar, I like to think I play very well and lots of people have praised my playing. I do it in bursts, spending lots of time playing and practicing and recording for a stretch of some months then I… don’t play at all. Life makes that cadence happen as much as anything, but all of my significant strides forward in technique and creative breakthrough have come shortly after breaking long dry…

I’ve been taking drawing classes and been trying to draw everyday for the last ~6 months, during the holidays I didn’t draw for 10 days due to being with family, when I got back to it it shocked me how much I had improved.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#46

My own experience: I play guitar, I like to think I play very well and lots of people have praised my playing. I do it in bursts, spending lots of time playing and practicing and recording for a stretch of some months then I… don’t play at all. Life makes that cadence happen as much as anything, but all of my significant strides forward in technique and creative breakthrough have come shortly after breaking long dry…

Learning something like playing music, dancing, and many other things, is a process of becoming conscious of things, then learning to do the same things unconsciously (muscle memory), then becoming conscious of how you're not doing them right and correcting that, then again going back to doing those things unconsciously, lather, rinse, repeat until expert, then do it again.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#47
post #32

This reminds me of a funny passage in Jin Yong’s wuxia novel “The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber”, where Zhang Wuji, the protagonist, learns taichi sword from his grand master Zhang Sanfeng. Zhang Sanfeng demonstrated the whole taichi sword form to Zhang Wuji repeatedly, and after each demonstration, asked Zhang Wuji “how much have you forgotten?” Zhang Wuji instantly got it and each time replied that he has forgotten…

> Jin [...] wuxia [...] Zhang Wuji [...] taichi [...] Zhang [...].

One of these things is not like the others. Why spell "taichi" that way?

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#48
post #32

This reminds me of a funny passage in Jin Yong’s wuxia novel “The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber”, where Zhang Wuji, the protagonist, learns taichi sword from his grand master Zhang Sanfeng. Zhang Sanfeng demonstrated the whole taichi sword form to Zhang Wuji repeatedly, and after each demonstration, asked Zhang Wuji “how much have you forgotten?” Zhang Wuji instantly got it and each time replied that he has forgotten…

> Jin [...] wuxia [...] Zhang Wuji [...] taichi [...] Zhang [...]. One of these things is not like the others. Why spell "taichi" that way?

I was typing from a phone and didn't pay attention.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#49

My own experience: I play guitar, I like to think I play very well and lots of people have praised my playing. I do it in bursts, spending lots of time playing and practicing and recording for a stretch of some months then I… don’t play at all. Life makes that cadence happen as much as anything, but all of my significant strides forward in technique and creative breakthrough have come shortly after breaking long dry…

Learning something like playing music, dancing, and many other things, is a process of becoming conscious of things, then learning to do the same things unconsciously (muscle memory), then becoming conscious of how you're not doing them right and correcting that, then again going back to doing those things unconsciously, lather, rinse, repeat until expert, then do it again.

All true but (again in my experience), I’ve found muscle memory improvements by basically dropping all of my work on developing it and staring all over, and I’ve found music writing/stylistic creativity improvements by just atrophying muscle memory and coming back feeling like I don’t know anything [about what I’m trying to do] at all.

Re: New theory proposes ‘forgetting’ is a form of learning

#50
post #32

This reminds me of a funny passage in Jin Yong’s wuxia novel “The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber”, where Zhang Wuji, the protagonist, learns taichi sword from his grand master Zhang Sanfeng. Zhang Sanfeng demonstrated the whole taichi sword form to Zhang Wuji repeatedly, and after each demonstration, asked Zhang Wuji “how much have you forgotten?” Zhang Wuji instantly got it and each time replied that he has forgotten…

> Jin [...] wuxia [...] Zhang Wuji [...] taichi [...] Zhang [...]. One of these things is not like the others. Why spell "taichi" that way?

Why do you feel the need to point out a tiny error when a Chinese person is going to the effort of romanising their own language so that we can all read it?
Post reply on HN