Live data from Hacker News

Train burglaries in LA

twitter.com

561–570 of 652 posts

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#561
post #460

Kind of related : America Is Falling Apart at the Seams https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/opinion/america-falling-a... A loss of civic sense and cultural criminality are incredibly hard to weed out of a population, once it has taken root. I worry that the a mix of pessimism and a loss of civic sense is sending non-elite America into a death spiral. Opponents of return-to-normalcy claim that these are temporary and a…

I wonder how much of this correlates with the drop in religious participation. Religion, for better or worse, was a useful tool for stigmatizing bad behavior and incentivizing good behavior

I think it has to do with a purpose that religion served = values core to the identity of everyone in the nation.

Modern America has no common history. America has no common ethnicity, no common roots and now no common religion. The least religious nations are often ethnically homogeneous (Sweden, Korea) or have an incredibly strong national cultural identity of what it means to belong (France, Singapore).The US had neither, and then took down the one thing that held together 80% of the US as of 2000. ie. Christianity (mostly protestant-derived)

And I'm a Hindu-by-birth Atheist immigrant. So, I don't have any vested interest in the restoration of Europe-derived Christianity within the US.

To me, the closest thing to a common american identity is a combination of the following 3:

* Protestant values of hard work, merit and family

* Colorblind-live-and-let-live immigrant melting pot

* Capitalistic enterprising nature of shooting for the moon and that anyone can be a billionaire/President.

Now, these might not be perfect, but it was the closest thing to national values that 80% could get buy in on.

However, populist politics of the last 10 years and the change in wealth distribution post 2000 has seen wholesale rejection of almost all of these values from both the populist left and the populist right. As the nation continues fracturing, the resentment towards your fellow countrymen grows to the point that you feel no civic duty towards your fellow countrymen, and maybe even take joy in looting them.

Religion unites as long as it is homogeneous. High level of religious beliefs would not help much, if they didn't unify people through a collective identity. So in this case, high levels of religious participation would not have helped, because there would still never be any agreement on a common religious identity given the degree of religious heterogeneity.

On an aside, I always find it funny when people say that countries that tolerate heterogenous identities such as the US or India are discriminatory or racist. Yeah, as if you with your 95+% cultural/religious/ethnic homogeneity have any right to speak about diversity. You can already see Europe coming apart at its seams with a small influx of culturally diverse middle-eastern refugees. The friction you see, is a result of an open system that allows each of these incompatible cultural identities to get a voice in the national discourse.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no particular order: The rich are getting richer faster than the rest of us. Real wages are stagnant. Social safety nets are constantly being removed. Labor protections have been being rolled back or enforcement lax since the ATC strike. Atomization and alienation have taken root. The mythos of the nuclear family being paramount is fully embedded in the culture, destroying the older concept of a broader family and…

I think some of these things ring true but you missed a few obvious ones, most of this stuff has been going on in California which is being governed into oblivion by its leaders: - California is getting very soft on crime recently, people now realize they can rob and steal what they want and there are zero consequences for it, this has lead to almost a complete collapse of order in most major california cities(see ex…

>Extreme division due to both right and left moving farther from the center

This says a lot about your position in what you imagine is the 'center'; the reality is that both sides are only moving further right. This has been happening for decades.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#563
post #36

I would expect this kind of pictures from a third world country... How come no one is incentivized to fix this - protect the trains, prevent this loss of property? Who pays for the stolen goods? I presume it would be the retailers, is it just a drop in the ocean for them? In some more dystopian movies there were trains crossing vast areas of postapocalyptic hellscape protected by soldiers with machine guns and flamet…

This kind of blantent theft wouldn't happen in a third world country. The contents of the train would be much more meaningful to the sender and recipients and they'd raise hell with the shipping company over the loss, which would cause the shipping company to hire an army of underpaid security guards as deterrents (if you've spent most of your life in an economy with minimum wage/universal education, you haven't fully experienced the way the global south can point an army of people at the most trivial problems). In US, much of the value of these containers could be restored to the shipper or recipient with shipping insurance or credit card chargebacks. Additionally, higher GDP means these packages (even the medical ones) are just too small an expense to the recipients to rile them up. I have a hard time believing developing country shipping companies can insurance their operations and remain as profitable as US companies can

Once the trains insurance company/fund (or UPS? Amazons?) starts to take a hit, they will respond swiftly with a solution somehow. It'll probably take a few more months of this to hit their bottom line.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#564

Having the community police its members can only be done with the proper external incentives to that community. The times in history where clans or family managed their own delinquents where also times where the clan or family as a whole was called to pay for the damage. What we have here is not a sudden lapse in morals - it's a result of, rather on purpose, individualism. Since the community has nothing to lose or g…

Bingo. 'The community' ultimately does not own what's on the train. There is no communal interest in protecting the goods on the train; there may be an element of self preservation ("If the train is robbed, I can't buy the goods later!"), but there is little sense of communal preservation in a society that promotes individualism. The same thing applies to the thieves- anti-collective behavior is inevitable in a society that does not meet the needs of every individual.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF city government provides housing for about half of the city's homeless people. The homeless and mentally ill people in SF come from all over USA. You see them SF, but I don't think SF shares much of the blame for their suffering. American voters are to blame, mostly Americans who voted for Republicans who reduced government spending on social services.

Yes, I still know people who blame the Republicans who ran the state in the 70s for the homeless problem. That was 50 years ago, but it still makes a good narrative.

Your comment violates the site guidelines:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#566
post #460

Kind of related : America Is Falling Apart at the Seams https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/opinion/america-falling-a... A loss of civic sense and cultural criminality are incredibly hard to weed out of a population, once it has taken root. I worry that the a mix of pessimism and a loss of civic sense is sending non-elite America into a death spiral. Opponents of return-to-normalcy claim that these are temporary and a…

In no particular order: The rich are getting richer faster than the rest of us. Real wages are stagnant. Social safety nets are constantly being removed. Labor protections have been being rolled back or enforcement lax since the ATC strike. Atomization and alienation have taken root. The mythos of the nuclear family being paramount is fully embedded in the culture, destroying the older concept of a broader family and…

[dead]

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#567
post #470
post #460

Kind of related : America Is Falling Apart at the Seams https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/opinion/america-falling-a... A loss of civic sense and cultural criminality are incredibly hard to weed out of a population, once it has taken root. I worry that the a mix of pessimism and a loss of civic sense is sending non-elite America into a death spiral. Opponents of return-to-normalcy claim that these are temporary and a…

And that ... Theory about the lockdowns supposedly not being because of the virus but to hide a larger financial crisis/weath reallocation is spreading quite quickly at least at far as I can tell. That's not going to reduce tensions in that regard, that's for sure. There is only circumstantial evidence but the story sounds plausible. If things continue like this, I'd wager that trump will return in 24

No post body was provided.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any evidence that religion reduces bad behavior? We know some of the most religious countries (Mexico, Syria) are relatively more dangerous than more secular countries like France or China. Is there a better data source to look at here?

You would have to adjust for all external influences. Mexico and Syria are mostly dangerous because of failed USA policies (drug war, war on terror) than their internal cultures

> You would have to adjust for all external influences.

Or you could argue that their internal culture probably due to religion was not strong enough to fight against external influences.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#569
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of this correlates with the drop in religious participation. Religion, for better or worse, was a useful tool for stigmatizing bad behavior and incentivizing good behavior

I think it has to do with a purpose that religion served = values core to the identity of everyone in the nation. Modern America has no common history. America has no common ethnicity, no common roots and now no common religion. The least religious nations are often ethnically homogeneous (Sweden, Korea) or have an incredibly strong national cultural identity of what it means to belong (France, Singapore).The US had…

> Religion unites as long as it is homogeneous.

Hindus in India divide and fight amongst themselves based on caste even though they all follow the same religion.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, medicines shipped by specialty / remote pharmacies typically don't often go by train, as they need relatively climate controlled environments (above freezing, under a certain amount, etc). That said, steal the shots I take for an autoimmune disorder and I'll definitely consider it an assault on my health.

In the US, stealing Epipens and selling them on the black market makes them more accessible compared to than forcing people to pay the retail price. The manufacturer can always make more - they could accept 90% losses due to theft and still sell them profitably, based on the prices they offer in other countries [0]. So if you're going to play the "assault on my health" card, the guys robbing trains are literally Robi…

This is cute and all, but generic versions are available for much less than that, goodrx and co offer steep discounts on the brand name, and Medicaid pays for it entirely with no co-pay.

If you want to continue the robin hood analogy, well, Robin hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. He wasn't selling life saving medicines that may or may not be fake (buyers won't know either way), and may have been improperly handled or stored.

He wasn't potentially killing people who just want to save a few bucks.

Post reply on HN