Live data from Hacker News

Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

news.ycombinator.com

511–520 of 773 posts

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#511
I'm surprised that there's no option in the poll for people who leave because they no longer believe the company is viable.

Why stay until the ship sinks? How many rounds of lay-offs have to occur before you start polishing up the resume? For me, one. Or even before layoffs, if there's an acquisition is in the works, boom, I am outta there (unless management specifically says I am not impacted). 8 jobs in 22 years, 1+2+4+1+2+2+2+8, of these 8 only 3 still exist or are recognizable as part of another company (including the one I am still at).

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#512
post #307
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend _Never Split The Difference_, by former Chief FBI Hostage Negotiator Chris Voss. Very fun read and widely applicable. Spoiler: His advice is not to strong-arm, but to build trust with your counterpart.

Also, I saw a lot of parallels with Playing to Win by David Sirlin [0], about competitive gaming. One of Sirlin's points is that the most common reason casual players lose is because they restrict themselves to a subset of legal moves. I.e. they play the game they think exists, or they think is "fair", rather than the rules as written. Transposed into negotiation, Voss feels very similar to me. Whereas most people ge…

I hadn't thought of the connection yet, but now that you mention it there are indeed a lot of parallels. Thank you for pointing this out! :)

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#513
post #328

Rather than quit or retire, I lingered in hopes of being laid off (letting my high pay level, ageism and existing "we don't need Senior Engineers; we have really smart management to do the thinking ahead etc. for the junior engineers" attitudes run their natural course). I "achieved" being laid off 4 months ago at age 58 and collected a nice (9 months' pay) severance package as a precursor to (this month) finally dec…

> "we don't need Senior Engineers; we have really smart management to do the thinking ahead etc. for the junior engineers" Wow, this bit makes so much sense. In my experience, most managers tend to add more layers, almost as a goal, but pay little attention to the seniority in such layers. For example, one of the managers I work with, restructured the organization in a way that would essentially put him at a VP level…

There was an article which I ran into thanks to HN a few months ago[1] that served to explain something I experienced at my employer 8(?) years ago: my role was abolished (legislated out of existence by HR and/or Finance); the role was unique to me, and I had held it very successfully for about 8 years at the time, but apparently, if you have a role that isn't found in some HR Dept or Finance Dept (or US Federal Dept of Labor?) book enumerating all jobs, even if engineering management finds it valuable, it will be abolished. I was shuttled off into a series of less aligned roles, and within 1 year, left that employer for a startup.

From the linked article:

Another place the non-fungibility of people causes predictable problems is with how managers operate teams. Managers who want to create effective teams end up fighting the system in order to do so. Non-engineering orgs mostly treat people as fungible, and the finance org at a number of companies I've worked for forces the engineering org to treat people as fungible by requiring the org to budget in terms of headcount. The company, of course, spends money and not "heads", but internal bookkeeping is done in terms of "heads", so $X of budget will be, for some team, translated into something like "three staff-level heads". There's no way to convert that into "two more effective and better-paid staff level heads". If you hire two staff engineers and not a third, the "head" and the associated budget will eventually get moved somewhere else.

One thing I've repeatedly seen is that a hiring manager will want to hire someone who they think will be highly effective or even just someone who has specialized skills and then not be able to hire because the company has translated budget into "heads" at a rate that doesn't allow for hiring some kind of heads. There will be a "comp team" or other group in HR that will object because the comp team has no concept of "an effective engineer" or "a specialty that's hard to hire for"; for a person, role, level, and location defines them and someone who's paid too much for their role and level is therefore a bad hire. If anyone reasonable had power over the process that they were willing to use, this wouldn't happen but, by design, the bureaucracy is set up so that few people have power.

These observations ring completely true to me. I'm a generalist, not a single-purpose actor, but the value that such an actor brings seems to run directly against the bureaucratic compulsion to categorize each employee.

[1] https://danluu.com/people-matter/

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#515
post #208
post #155

For more than a year I've been trying to get it clear to my boss that I'm too stressed and need a less chaotic workplace. The last months I've had constant headache and fuzzy vision. I checked my blood pressure and it was 180/95. Ten months earlier when I last checked it it was 130/83. On medication now, but my heart beats so hard sometimes I think I need more medication. When I told my boss about this, he said the u…

> Leave, and start my own company. I don't think that's going to be less stressful... Good luck though!

I imagine the sources of stress would be very different which may help. The increased agency may also help. Different people respond differently to different types of stress, I think.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#516
On one hand i think finding a job with better compensation is the best thing to do right now considering that the rate of inflation has pretty much eclipsed a typical raise, so the best thing to do is look for 15-20% increase in pay. At the same time, I am personally very hesitant to switch jobs mostly because of economic uncertainty and my belief that we're going to hit a major recession this year. 2008, massive layoffs and hiring freezes still give me goosebumps.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#517
I think the recruitment industry themselves kicked off the whole "great resignation".

By promoting the idea that employees are going to resign, it forces employers to quickly get into "recruitment mode" - as we all know, recruitment takes time (and money). Better be prepared!

Since there is now an abundance of job adverts, and hype, employees who previously were _not_ thinking about changing roles are now considering it.

Employees get higher wages and the recruitment industry gets a boost.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#518
post #440
post #328

Rather than quit or retire, I lingered in hopes of being laid off (letting my high pay level, ageism and existing "we don't need Senior Engineers; we have really smart management to do the thinking ahead etc. for the junior engineers" attitudes run their natural course). I "achieved" being laid off 4 months ago at age 58 and collected a nice (9 months' pay) severance package as a precursor to (this month) finally dec…

I'm a little younger than you but feel the ageism too. 10-20 years ago I had no problem getting jobs now I feel like the guy on the playground who's always picked last when choosing teams.

(This probably belongs on one of the many Leetcode interview threads ongoing, but ...)

Yes, and while going thru the past few months' "let me see if I can find something that engages me and my interests (w/o too much concern about pay level)" job search, I repeatedly ran into Job Descriptions containing criteria BS/MS CompSci, EE, or equivalent required. I have a BSEE, but in fact, the underlying premise of Leetcode testing is CompSci. So the allowance for EE degreed candidates is IMO bogus/deceptive. I never got near a CompSci Data Structures or Algorithms course during my uni days, and aside from Leetcode, never suffered an inability to get my job done due to that omission.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#519
While I completely agree that change is good, and flexibility, company culture and life balance are incredibly important, the reason I left my job in October was compensation.

I started at that project as a freelancer, but the client had a hard rule that they couldn't hire freelancers for more than two years (because the tax service might consider them employees instead), and after two years I wasn't ready to leave, so I became an employee. I knew I had to take a pay cut for that, but the pay cut turned out to be much, much larger tan I expected. That simply made it a temporary thing. I don't regret continuing that project for another year, and I did try to negotiate better salary that might allow me to stay longer, but when that turned out to be impossible, I left.

I'm freelancing again.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#520

Working at Apple as a contractor sucks, I am starting my new gig next tuesday that lets me do 100% remote as a fte so I get all the benefits I miss out on at Apple since I don’t live where they want me to.

I'm switching from a FTE to a contractor next week (for a different company) so now I'm curious to know what exactly you didn't like about that arrangement. I'm personally making the switch to work three days a week and focus on my own project the remaining two.

I dont get the same pay arrangement bonuses, raises, rsu etc, they get a ton of pto for holidays and I don’t, employees get tons of trainings, access to online learning accounts, tuition reimbursement, they have a much bigger health care pool i pay about $24,000/yr for health care, employee discounts on company gear, 401k matching, employee stock purchase.

My contract house offered 10 pto, 5 sick, 7 paid holidays, base salary.

Post reply on HN