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Teaching how to code is broken

neil.computer

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Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#101

Post by skinkestek »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #76
skinkestek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is especially important in CS especially when boys are encouraged from a young age to do "techy" and "geeky" things in ways that girls usually aren't. Just be aware that this is not everyones experience. Many places boys are held back and girls are pushed forward. And then afterwards boys gets told they are somehow "privileged" and would never be were they are if it wasn't for "male privilege". Obviously this…

This seems entirely created out of thin air.

I think that was neither nice nor fair from you.

This is experience.

If you had a cushy life, good for you. But don't tell others their experiences aren't real.

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#102

Post by khendron »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #51
bob1029 wrote: post #17

I have always struggled with how to advise my friends & family on this path of learning. It seems like everyone wants to be a WFH developer these days, but I don't know how to enable them to succeed on that path. "Go build something you want to build!" is something I keep reiterating (as does this article). But most don't seem to be interested in that for whatever reason (presumably because its fucking hard). Maybe I…

I have never met a programmer I respected skill-wise that wouldn't randomly spend a weekend locked in a room solving an esoteric problem they felt they had to solve (for no reason). Over the Christmas holidays everyone at my company writes PoCs or hobby projects, being glad to have some free time away from paid programming in order to enjoy recreational programming. What I'm trying to get at is software engineering i…

When non-tech folks ask me how to learn programming because they want "jump on the money train", I ask them if they ever take the initiative to solve a problem with programming. You don't have to work in tech to do this. For example:

Work in an office writing documents and making spreadsheets? Have you ever simplified your job by writing a Word or Excel Macro?

Own a smart TV? Have you dug into its features until you know them backwards and forwards and can program it to (metaphorically) sing and dance on command?

Have you connected multiple things in your house together so you can control them from your phone, just because you could?

These are all examples of taking the initiative AND having the curiosity to dig into technical problems, and implement solutions. If you are like this, you will likely do well in tech and really enjoy it. If you DON'T have the tendency to do these sorts of things, you are probably going to have a bad time.

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#103

Post by Der_Einzige »

tonguez wrote: post #71
travisd wrote: post #5

I have opinions™, but mostly agree with this article. Most intro coding classes and course materials read more like a glossary than a lesson. This contributes (rather directly) to the failure to retain a diverse student base in intro CS program. We've gotten a lot better at recruiting CS students from underrepresented groups (women and BIPOC chiefly), but numbers drop off quickly[1]. Studies in math education have sh…

Yes, I remember back in the day the girls would always try to come into the computer lab to play video games. My friends and I were always like, "GET OUT! WE HATE WOMEN!" Then they left. The girls wanted to learn how to code so badly, but we wouldn't let them. My friends and I were getting lots of sexual attention from women, but we thought that was boring, and preferred to spend our time alone on computers. The girl…

Is this GPT-3? It looks like it is.

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#104

Post by rjbwork »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #51
bob1029 wrote: post #17

I have always struggled with how to advise my friends & family on this path of learning. It seems like everyone wants to be a WFH developer these days, but I don't know how to enable them to succeed on that path. "Go build something you want to build!" is something I keep reiterating (as does this article). But most don't seem to be interested in that for whatever reason (presumably because its fucking hard). Maybe I…

I have never met a programmer I respected skill-wise that wouldn't randomly spend a weekend locked in a room solving an esoteric problem they felt they had to solve (for no reason). Over the Christmas holidays everyone at my company writes PoCs or hobby projects, being glad to have some free time away from paid programming in order to enjoy recreational programming. What I'm trying to get at is software engineering i…

>or at least were at some point (it goes in cycles)

Indeed. And the periods in which I can be obsessed seem to be increasingly less common as I get older, but every now and then I get bitten and just have to bang it out.

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#105

Post by paulryanrogers »

chmod600 wrote: post #88
lawl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the best way to learn programming is to find a program you want to create, and then figure out how to make that happen. This is still how i learn (most effectively) today. If i want to learn a new language or something, i write something that i always wanted to write in it anyways. That way it doesn't get boring. I think what you're describing might be similar in that canned-data is not interesting.

But you need some concept of what kinds of problems are solvable with a computer before you could really be inspired to program one. And more than that, you need to have a concept of the difficulty of a given problem for a beginner or expert. Obviously a beginner will be wildly off, but probably needs some concept of the level of difficulty. For example, lots of people have motivation to write a game. But few have th…

It's a matter of scope and expectations. Leave your epic space opera in your dreams and take baby steps using easier tools and concepts. Once you find some fun try product-izing it.

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#107

Post by dfdz »

> Why? Because none of these chapters answer the most important question a reader has, the entire time, WHY!? Why is all this important and what problems does it solve? When should I use this thing that I learned?

When I was an undergrad taking an advanced class about probability theory, I asked my professor for help understanding the bigger picture. I could solve each of the problem sets, but I couldn’t see the bigger the picture. Why the hell are we doing this? The professor told me something like “Oh don’t worry, somethings are just impossible to fully understand the first time. Once you take a second and third class that uses these ideas the bigger picture will come together”

I have found this mindset to be incredibly true. Rather than philosophizing about the optimal way to learn to code (or anything) just:

1. read/take a class about the subject

2. use the ideas you learned

3. goto 1

While it seems inefficient, I think it can be a very natural way to learn and avoid all catch-22 situations

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#108

Post by TaylorAlexander »

I must share the very wonderful video by Seymour Papert on teaching LOGO. He makes a similar observation: imagine if we taught people dancing by sitting them at a desk and explaining all the steps to them, making them memorize them and write them down, but they were never allowed to actually move or try the steps. We find when teaching people a language for example that immersion works very well. So Papert suggests teaching math by immersing students in "Math land", and shows off his computer language LOGO designed to do that. It is a wonderful video in many ways and a big inspiration for me as I think about hopefully teaching in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG9cYhekB8A

Youtube link for easy viewing but the entire video series he helped produce is here:

https://el.media.mit.edu/logo-foundation/resources/onlogo/in...

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#109

Post by 999900000999 »

>Why is all this important and what problems does it solve?

Couldn't of stated in better.

My why was creating a few games with my friends.

It's been a real gift to see it turn into a career.

You can teach yourself to code for free with an old laptop ( Ubuntu with Xfce works) , it's one of the last accessible careers.

Re: Teaching how to code is broken

#110

Post by financetechbro »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77

My approach is to employ folks with enthusiasm. If they're teachable, they'll figure out whatever pile of tools they get thrown into on the first task. Then they'll have some skills and the next task will seem less daunting. Of course some mentoring is useful. But just the stuff that's pertinent to the task at hand; concrete help that gets them moving forward. Because, somebody is paying for results. And because prod…

I wish there were more people out there like you. You sound like a great mentor / boss
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