All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future... • Hacker News Board

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#11

Post by TomOfTTB » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 10:59 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #5

At least Gruber is rightfully giving props to Microsoft for the very original UI. Every time I see anything Metro based I'm struck at what a breath of fresh air it is in mobile.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean, there are two aspects to consider here.

The Metro "Theme" which is attractive but I wouldn't call it mind blowing. It basically plays off a trend that had been developing since the web gained prominence which is to ditch the pseudo-3d interfaces for a flatter look. Again, I don't deny its attractive.

The Interface Elements - As far as the UI Metro doesn't change much. It basically boils down to Widgets instead of icons. I mean, Android already had desktop widgets. Again not saying what Microsoft is doing is bad (it isn't) but is it really "a breath of fresh air"?

The real innovation of Metro in Windows Phone 7 is the wall concept where people can scroll in every direction. But that doesn't seem to be present in Windows 8.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#12

Post by josephcooney » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:00 PM UTC

mycroftiv wrote: post #10

>What strikes me about Thurrott’s tweet is that the two companies have attracted the writers they deserve. Me? I’d be appalled if Apple were to unveil something in the half- (if that) finished state of Windows 8 for tablets. I enjoy writing about what’s real. I can't believe that Gruber can write such self-satisfied tripe without more self-awareness. His quote is more true than he realizes - the incredible smugness o…

Yes. I guess I missed the part where all of the attendees at build received a real working windows 8 tablet, running the real windows 8 preview/alpha/beta/whatever-we're-calling-it-these-days bits. Somehow that isn't _real_ in the way apple would do real, and thus not REALLY real.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#13

Post by Lewisham » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:05 PM UTC

mycroftiv wrote: post #10

>What strikes me about Thurrott’s tweet is that the two companies have attracted the writers they deserve. Me? I’d be appalled if Apple were to unveil something in the half- (if that) finished state of Windows 8 for tablets. I enjoy writing about what’s real. I can't believe that Gruber can write such self-satisfied tripe without more self-awareness. His quote is more true than he realizes - the incredible smugness o…

One could reasonably argue that Lion is a half-finished state itself. It's neither here nor there; an incoherent mess of UI ideas and functions.

I'm not especially happy I upgraded. I find myself working against Lion's new features more often than with.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#14

Post by tambourine_man » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:12 PM UTC

A great title for a mediocre article. Had he simply answered Paul's tweet with Yoda's quote, little could be said against it. Instead, he elaborated poorly on obviousness.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#15

Post by Lewisham » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:16 PM UTC

panicslowly wrote: post #7

The Metro UI is great, but the hardware on the market isn't exactly stellar (compared to iOS/Android offerings). If I were Microsoft, I'd be worried about something similar happening in the tablet market. How are they going to stand out in non-traditional PC markets?

As Nokia is essentially a Microsoft puppet at this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nokia enter the tablet market.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#16

Post by 0x12 » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:18 PM UTC

This article misses out on one small detail: it is a lot easier to update software than it is to update hardware after you ship it.

It was a silly tweet and I think that it may be a little bit too soon to call the race run. For now iPad is solidly in the lead, let's see how it plays out.

Who releases what in which way is probably not a factor in the long run.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#17

Post by doyoulikeworms » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:21 PM UTC

TomOfTTB wrote: post #11

Steko wrote: post #5

At least Gruber is rightfully giving props to Microsoft for the very original UI. Every time I see anything Metro based I'm struck at what a breath of fresh air it is in mobile.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean, there are two aspects to consider here. The Metro "Theme" which is attractive but I wouldn't call it mind blowing. It basically plays off a trend that had been developing since the web gained prominence which is to ditch the pseudo-3d interfaces for a flatter look. Again, I don't deny its attractive. The Interface Elements - As far as the UI Metro doesn't change much. It basica…

I think the reasoning behind the newer Windows phone OSes being a "breath of fresh air" is not so much that they're 100% original (what is?) or mind blowing.

It's refreshing because it is, simply put, different. Android and iOS much more closely resemble each other than either resembles any recent Windows phone OS.

That's my take, anyway.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#18

Post by Steko » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:28 PM UTC

mycroftiv wrote: post #10

>What strikes me about Thurrott’s tweet is that the two companies have attracted the writers they deserve. Me? I’d be appalled if Apple were to unveil something in the half- (if that) finished state of Windows 8 for tablets. I enjoy writing about what’s real. I can't believe that Gruber can write such self-satisfied tripe without more self-awareness. His quote is more true than he realizes - the incredible smugness o…

I guess smugness is in the eye of the beholder.

It's not smug when Thurott says "Hello, Windows 8? This is iPad. You win."?

It's not smug when Ballmer dismisses every Apple product when it's released only to watch that product become a smash hit?

Don't get me wrong Gruber's smug as all hell in this piece but Apple itself? I'm not so sure that shoe fits although a couple examples come to mind (like Steve's projection of Safari browser share).

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#19

Post by pavlov » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:34 PM UTC

"I enjoy writing about what’s real."

This is fairly ironic, when just a few paragraphs earlier he was discussing the "as-yet-unannounced iPad 3".

Most Apple writers (Gruber included) spend a great deal of time writing about imaginary products. They are in the business of compiling rumors, wish lists, Taiwanese newspaper speculations and divinatory readings of Cupertino teacup leftovers into a coherent whole that could be an Apple product in development. There's nothing "real" about that process, though.

Windows 8 has a credible story, a visual identity, a unified API, and it's available for download today. It's clearly a real product for developers, who were the target audience of the Build conference.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#20

Post by Steko » Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 11:36 PM UTC

Lewisham wrote: post #13

mycroftiv wrote: post #10

>What strikes me about Thurrott’s tweet is that the two companies have attracted the writers they deserve. Me? I’d be appalled if Apple were to unveil something in the half- (if that) finished state of Windows 8 for tablets. I enjoy writing about what’s real. I can't believe that Gruber can write such self-satisfied tripe without more self-awareness. His quote is more true than he realizes - the incredible smugness o…

One could reasonably argue that Lion is a half-finished state itself. It's neither here nor there; an incoherent mess of UI ideas and functions. I'm not especially happy I upgraded. I find myself working against Lion's new features more often than with.

One could reasonably point out that this is a minority view and most reviews of Lion are pretty positive.