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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
291–300 of 348 posts
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#292Quoted post unavailable.
Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. We want to avoid that here.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29931805.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#293Quoted post unavailable.
"rest of the world" being you , apparently.
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. We're trying to avoid that here.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
> One can argue that almost all restrictions during the pandemic had to be based on very shaky science because there simply isn't time to first await the science and then make the decision. And there are surely a lot of restrictions that are much worse to have, than vaccine mandate for immigration. Shutting down schools or banning gatherings, for example. That's my point. People are basing a witch-hunt on unscientifi…
That's oversimplifying it. It's not that decisions are "unscientific" because the science isn't rock solid. Politicians and authorities have the unenviable job of having to make decisions that some times have to precede science. Acting out of caution is a thing. Besides, it's not as if you ask scientists their response would always be "well our science won't say very much until a year from now, so of course we recomm…
I agree, but I meant something else and I probably was not clear with my wording:
I think that there is a witch-hunt against people who are considered to think unscientifically, but the hunters do not have a solid scientific basis for their battle calls themselves. I find that ironic and tragic at the same time.
People in this thread and elsewhere attacked Djokovic for avoiding the vaccine, but nobody was able to provide evidence that would explain why Djokovic needs to be vaccinated, given his condition and history. It boils down to "the rules are the rules" and "same rules for everyone". Read that with Hanna Ahrendt's voice. Pure ideology and decoupling from actual reasoning and common sense. We are supposed to base medicine on science, not on ideology, aren't we?
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#295David Crowe writes in The Age https://archive.ph/Ohx6d The political cost of letting Djokovic stay was too high for Morrison Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? Angering those Australians would have been a huge danger for Morrison when he…
How does this in any way make the Australian government look better?
Sensible government policy is to enforce its rules consistently rather than exempt famous people who lie and cheat.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
"...blatant discrimination against unvaccinated" Damn right it is, and they ought to be discriminated against for the safety of others—and that includes me! I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger. Cle…
[flagged]
"You sir would’ve thought the Germans right to get rid of those dirty Jews, and you would’ve justified it much the same way you justify yourself now"
I have never had reason to flag anyone before but that statement has to be a quintessential example for why one would do so, in fact I don't think I've ever seen another statement on HN that would justify it more than this.
No, I won't flag this message because I want your post to remain there for others to see how absolutely low you have stooped. You are not only being offensive in the extreme but you are accusing me of views that I have never expressed on HN or anywhere else for that matter.
There is no way that you could ever possibly know what my views on that matter are; therefore, you are being provocative in the extreme. Nevertheless, I am still not going to bite. All I will add is that I do not hold those views and I never have. They are the antithesis of everything that I stand for.
I have stated facts about our governance (and I once studied the subject). If you want to shoot the messenger instead of accepting the facts then that is your prerogative. However, be warned, it will get you nowhere and is likely to bring you a negative reputation that you may later come to regret.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#297David Crowe writes in The Age https://archive.ph/Ohx6d The political cost of letting Djokovic stay was too high for Morrison Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? Angering those Australians would have been a huge danger for Morrison when he…
> Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? It seems Djokovic went through all the proper channels to get an exemption and visa. Australia's institutions gave him a visa. The real exemption is that a minister is disregarding Australia's institutions and cancelling his visa because "feelings". Australia needs to take a hard look at their laws and the way they treat their citizens instead…
He lied to immigration on a form saying very clearly that it was a serious offence to lie on that one.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no need for any scientific argument, really. Australia is a sovereign country that controls under what conditions they allow people to come in, and is perfectly free to ask people to stand on their head for 5 minutes as an entry condition, if they want to. Look into your own country's visa terms, it's by no means trivial to get in somewhere, and it often requires satisfying some requirements that are not at a…
Of course they can and they do. But the Australian opens are then a tournament where the highlight is the match between the second best and the third best.
Yes, so?
A problem for the AO, yes. But for a country as a whole, this is not a problem, and kicking him out is the better outcome. It shows to the citizens that the restrictions they had to abide by apply to everyone, and that you can't get through just by being famous. That's how it should be. If they say you don't get in without a vaccine, then you don't.
Personally, I don't want this guy in my country either.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's oversimplifying it. It's not that decisions are "unscientific" because the science isn't rock solid. Politicians and authorities have the unenviable job of having to make decisions that some times have to precede science. Acting out of caution is a thing. Besides, it's not as if you ask scientists their response would always be "well our science won't say very much until a year from now, so of course we recomm…
I agree, but I meant something else and I probably was not clear with my wording: I think that there is a witch-hunt against people who are considered to think unscientifically, but the hunters do not have a solid scientific basis for their battle calls themselves. I find that ironic and tragic at the same time. People in this thread and elsewhere attacked Djokovic for avoiding the vaccine, but nobody was able to pro…
The difference between saying "Well now there is omicron and I'm young and healthy and have just had covid so I should do some back-of-the-napkin-math" versus "I don't believe in the idea of vaccinating populations as soon as the individual risk outweighs the population risk" (i.e. antivax) is pretty large.
Novak is now in the former category, but he was in the latter - which is why I don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt any more.
Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration
#300Is in the public interest of Australian people for natural immunity to be recognized and this spectacle be over In comparison they are allowed to have cricket matches with hundreds of thousands of spectators packing
Yup. EU recognizes past infections, not sure why places like Canada and Australia refuse to. It's pretty clear it's not about science at this point. For example, in Canada some provinces have created exemptions for people who have COVID to be able to work, while firing those who are unvaccinated... Science has been completely tossed by the wayside because of politics and our vengeful population.
The EU only recognises past infections for a limited time. I think it varies by country but in the range six to nine months.