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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#171

Post by antisthenes »

daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

> When I gave my verbal notice, suddenly there was immediate backpedaling and said maybe something could be worked out. I declined because I don't negotiate like that. If you mismanage a negotiation, there is no do-overs just because you overplayed your hand. The trust is broken.

Agreed. That's like trying to take your money back once you see a river card that doesn't help you in poker.

Just doesn't work like that. Negotiate in good faith or accept the potential consequences.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#172

Post by protonimitate »

daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

Same thing happened to me at my last company. I was over worked, wore too many hats, and was paid significantly less than my team mates who were more junior than I was (and had less responsibility). I had a handful of conversations that never amounted to anything. As soon as I put in my notice with a new offer in hand suddenly I was able to "set my price".

I left for other reasons as well, but it really shone a light on how management thought of ICs. Managers: proactively reward your ICs, don't wait until they're halfway out the door. I would honestly take a less aggressive adjustment in comp if it was done proactively, rather than waiting until I'm fed up and on my way out.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#173

Post by dragonwriter »

kyrra wrote: post #119
randomdata wrote: post #92

I suspect that the so-called Great Resignation follows a period of nobody leaving their jobs, presumably due to fear of what was to come amid the pandemic. Last year reports were indicating that a record number of people wanted to leave their jobs, but weren’t, thus giving us a glut of people ready to leave all at once instead of doing so over a longer period of time like they normally would. This would also explain…

Labor shortages are also a problem of workforce participation. While the big headline number that most news organizations cover is unemployment numbers, the one that is really important with the pandemic is Workforce Participation. AKA: "the proportion of the working-age population that is either working or actively looking for work". Check out the stats for this: [0]. We are still down 1.5% from where we were pre-pa…

The vast majority of the drop in Labor Force Participation Rate (LFPR) is Boomers permanently withdrawing from the workforce (some of which may have been accelerated by the pandemic, both because of convincing people they didn't want to keep working and disability, but while there may be some temporary unretirement driven by improved working conditions and rising costs & pay, most of that won't reverse.)

The “working age” band has a lower end, but no upper end, so demographic bulges passing through retirement age produce LFPR drops.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#174

Post by ericmcer »

xenihn wrote: post #75
daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

There are still too many managers who don't understand one of their primary responsibilities in a market that favors employees: making sure that their best engineers don't leave. The job market won't always be like this, but you'd think that they would have figured it out by now during the current run. It's been nearly a decade at this point, and the pandemic has tipped things even further in the favor of the people…

I have been surprised how emotionally unaware many of my managers are. They are engineers who moved to management and seem to think reading a bunch of books on management will make them adept at the social skills needed to read and adapt to individuals and a teams emotional state. Compensation is huge but good software devs are all making enough to where a 20-30% swing in either direction isn't going to make or break us. I would happily take a 20% cut if I loved what I was doing and felt endeared of my manager and our goals.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#175

Post by jokethrowaway »

A mix of compensation jump given inflation and the company going crazy because of the lockdown. The leadership basically mandated everyone should collaborate (but not officially, because the structure is flat and "everyone has a voice"; a member per team participates in a leadership meeting and then suggest what to do next) and, from one day to another, everyone was in meetings all day.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#177

Post by everfrustrated »

spockz wrote: post #151
xenihn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still too many managers who don't understand one of their primary responsibilities in a market that favors employees: making sure that their best engineers don't leave. The job market won't always be like this, but you'd think that they would have figured it out by now during the current run. It's been nearly a decade at this point, and the pandemic has tipped things even further in the favor of the people…

To be fair to the managers, from my experience managers themselves have little to say and it is mostly HR that determines rules like compensation. In our case, insanely, salaries are frozen. Nothing that your direct manager can do about it. Except, leave, and get hired the next day.

There's an exception for every rule. As a manager I've fought HR to get pay rises during pay freezes. And won. Bad managers roll over when presented with obstacles, great ones fight for their team.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#178

Post by sokoloff »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #73
diob wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.

Why is compensation #1 though? There is a threshold where you have enough money and it's easier to work with people you know and like. So, what do they need that extra money for? As I mentioned elsewhere housing is currently the #1 issues I see here in Canada that people are focused on. If you are a front line person, making $15 at a restaurant, plus renting where housing costs $1m+, you are probably looking for opti…

Personally, I’m still building for retirement. I have way more than enough to live every month, but way less than I’ll need to retire and be able to spend my early retirement (healthiest remaining) years traveling and still be confident that my spouse (with longevity in her family) will be well taken care of financially if she lives as long as the rest of her family tends to.

Retirement savings (and to a lesser extent because the numbers are way smaller, college savings) drive the need to accumulate 25x your annual expenses.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#179

Post by reedjosh »

nicoburns wrote: post #131
foobarian wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you pay off your house when you can keep the cash in an investment account making > 5% APR vs. the house loan which presumably is in the low 3s.

House prices are increasing by >5% a year in a lot of the world.

This doesn't change the equation.

Go buy a house that will increase by >5%/year, but then don't pay it off any sooner than you have to.

Make the minimum payments, and invest in something that will return a stable 5%+ with your remaining income.

Just because the house itself increases in value, doesn't mean you should pay down the ~3% interest rate loan any faster than you have to.

And really, once you've built enough via this strategy, you should either invest in a more expensive house or buy a house to rent afterward.

This is all the consequence of inflation and easy money/loans, but the smart money move is to never pay off low interest rate loans. This is particularly true when inflation (acknowledged anyway) is 6%.

Using the 6% number, you're actually gaining (on average) 3% on a 3% loan just by using the cash.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#180

Post by phkahler »

foobarian wrote: post #118
hkt wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threshold where you have enough has been driven up by crazy rents and house prices. Personally, I want my house paid off before I'm 40, so I shoot for maximum earnings and remote work that lets me live in a cheaper place. That ratio makes my ambition very attainable. Related is the sustainability of work: I don't want to need high earnings past 40. I want to retire into a second career I'll find more fulfilling b…

Why would you pay off your house when you can keep the cash in an investment account making > 5% APR vs. the house loan which presumably is in the low 3s.

>> Why would you pay off your house when you can keep the cash in an investment...

I asked someone that in my mid 20's. He said "It's nice knowing I can support my family working at McDonalds if I have to." That stuck with me. Something fundamental changes in your life when you become debt-free.

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