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The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

hackingportuguese.com

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Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#11

Post by andrepd »

marcodiego wrote: post #9

Portuguese is very rich in terms of phonemes compared to other western languages. Brazil is a very big country with many different accents, but when we talk about popular artists and TV, there are some which are popular in the whole country. This makes the people well aware of how people from different parts of the country speak and, naturally, people have developed a "common way to speak" that can sound "neutral" to…

"BBC english" is also the name given to the rp "neutral" accent of British English.

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#12

Post by weinzierl »

When I was in Brazil in the 90s someone asked me if I liked 'nuns and hoses'. Took me a while to figure out she meant Guns 'N Roses.

The Brazilian R is very variable as the article points out but often it is closer to an H than to an R and sometimes this is even true when Brazilians speak English;-)

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#13

Post by pelasaco »

marcodiego wrote: post #9

Portuguese is very rich in terms of phonemes compared to other western languages. Brazil is a very big country with many different accents, but when we talk about popular artists and TV, there are some which are popular in the whole country. This makes the people well aware of how people from different parts of the country speak and, naturally, people have developed a "common way to speak" that can sound "neutral" to…

Normally Brazilians have issues with the german R as spoken in the North of Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNU6ZLaZ7Z8

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#14

Post by marcodiego »

pjmlp wrote: post #7

Very interesting article, however from Portuguese point of view, it left out plenty of dialects, not only it is somehow diverse across the mainland and islands, the african versions are also not one per country rather it also varies per region and the local criolo influences. However the author does acknowledge that his knowledge is focused on Brasil, so there is that.

Yes. I've personally heard people from Cabo Verde and the way people from Brazil, Portugal and Cabo Verde speak is clearly different.

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#15

Post by bigodbiel »

marcodiego wrote: post #9

Portuguese is very rich in terms of phonemes compared to other western languages. Brazil is a very big country with many different accents, but when we talk about popular artists and TV, there are some which are popular in the whole country. This makes the people well aware of how people from different parts of the country speak and, naturally, people have developed a "common way to speak" that can sound "neutral" to…

This really reminds me of “tranatlantic accent” which prevailed in the mid 1900 and for many non-English speakers was considered as the de facto English, mainly because of it popularization via news and entertainment industries.

Just like Hollywood and news broadcast, Brazilian soap operas have created the de facto Portuguese accent for non-Portuguese speakers.

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#16

Post by marcodiego »

pelasaco wrote: post #13
marcodiego wrote: post #9

Portuguese is very rich in terms of phonemes compared to other western languages. Brazil is a very big country with many different accents, but when we talk about popular artists and TV, there are some which are popular in the whole country. This makes the people well aware of how people from different parts of the country speak and, naturally, people have developed a "common way to speak" that can sound "neutral" to…

Normally Brazilians have issues with the german R as spoken in the North of Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNU6ZLaZ7Z8

Indeed, this 'r' sound where the vibration lies deep into the throat is not part of our phoneme repository. I have no difficulty with it though.

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#17

Post by pelasaco »

"Take this with a grain of salt, because I am not as familiar with the European dialect."

Actually as expected in Portugal, they have many dialects too. There are four main Portuguese dialect groups, all mutually intelligible: Central, or Beira, Southern (Estremenho), including Lisbon, Alentejo, and Algarve, Insular, including the dialects of Madeira and the Azores. There is even an extinct one, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaeo-Portuguese. The Portuguese version of this wiki article has more information https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeu-portugu%C3%AAs

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#18

Post by ptsneves »

pjmlp wrote: post #8
ORioN63 wrote: post #2

Link is dead. As an anecdote, to kick off discussion, I, as a native European Portuguese speaker, that was born in France (moved to Portugal when I was 4), can _barely_ pronounce them correctly. Not all R's have the same roll of the tongue. They're usually in the middle of the word. Hate those R's.

Don't worry, as native European Portuguese speaker, the way we speak the H means (hint for others, we really don't), has already landed me in some funny situations in languages where it actually makes a difference, like German.

The difference between the sounds of "a penis" and "happiness" is mostly the h vocalization which European Portuguese basically ignores.

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#19

Post by diego_moita »

Scottish people can pronounce the same sound!

When you say "Loch Ness" with a very thick Scottish accent, the "ch" in loch is quite close to it.

Also the sound is quite common in other languages: "roi" in French, "reisen" in German, ... Even some Spanish dialects like Galego have the same r. Only Castilian/normal Spanish doesn't have it.

OTOH, just ask a Brazilian to pronounce simply "the". The "th" phoneme is quite hard for Portuguese speakers.

Better yet, ask a native from Rio to pronounce any word with a mute "t" or "d". It's hilarious. "Brad Pit" becomes "brahdjee peetchee".

Re: The enigmatic Portuguese R (2013)

#20

Post by jventura »

pelasaco wrote: post #13
marcodiego wrote: post #9

Portuguese is very rich in terms of phonemes compared to other western languages. Brazil is a very big country with many different accents, but when we talk about popular artists and TV, there are some which are popular in the whole country. This makes the people well aware of how people from different parts of the country speak and, naturally, people have developed a "common way to speak" that can sound "neutral" to…

Normally Brazilians have issues with the german R as spoken in the North of Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNU6ZLaZ7Z8

It’s just a regular “r” for us pt-pt natives... :)
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