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The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

ucl.ac.uk

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Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#21

Post by burntoutfire »

rileyjshaw wrote: post #16
jokoon wrote: post #5

I was again, arguing about work on reddit. Someone said that even animals "work" to survive. I found that the comparison was not really good. Food and shelter are abundant. Technology improved the human condition, but it made humans be much much less social, which is the main cause of inequalities. The individual car/kitchen/living room/bathroom generate exclusion. I'm an introvert, I want to have my safe space, but…

“The managers tell us that the swimmers, crawlers, walkers, and fliers spent their lives working in order to eat. These managers are broadcasting their news too soon. The varied beings haven’t all been exterminated yet. You, reader, have only to mingle with them, or just watch them from a distance, to see that their waking lives are filled with dances, games, and feasts. Even the hunt, the stalking and feinting and l…

> The only beings who work are inmates like us.

What about ants?

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#22

Post by burntoutfire »

justalanm wrote: post #19
jstx1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the people who want to work?

Abolish "mandatory" work. Now you can keep working if you want to. It was easy.

Work already is not mandatory. Anyone is free to figure out other ways to get food and shelter.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#23

Post by janeroe »

justalanm wrote: post #19
jstx1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the people who want to work?

Abolish "mandatory" work. Now you can keep working if you want to. It was easy.

Ironically, there's no mandatory work anywhere but in Communist paradises where by criminal code "parasitism" (not being enrolled to one of the organizations / skipping workdays without a valid reason) is prosecuted.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#24

Post by andrewjl »

neilwilson wrote: post #8
jokoon wrote: post #5

I was again, arguing about work on reddit. Someone said that even animals "work" to survive. I found that the comparison was not really good. Food and shelter are abundant. Technology improved the human condition, but it made humans be much much less social, which is the main cause of inequalities. The individual car/kitchen/living room/bathroom generate exclusion. I'm an introvert, I want to have my safe space, but…

"Food and shelter are abundant." Only because somebody made them by working Monday to Friday. That somebody could make less by working Monday to Tuesday. Food and shelter would be less abundant and the person currently working a full week to produce the surplus would instead have the rest of the week to themselves. The productivity, and the free time, would accrue to those expending the effort of production - as mora…

> Only because somebody made them by working Monday to Friday. That somebody could make less by working Monday to Tuesday. Food and shelter would be less abundant and the person currently working a full week to produce the surplus would instead have the rest of the week to themselves.

The industrial revolution did not change the number of days in a week.

> The productivity, and the free time, would accrue to those expending the effort of production - as morally it should.

This is false in general. Quite a few folks providing key industrial inputs, like cotton for the first industrial revolution, received zero of those accruals for centuries.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#25

Post by justalanm »

burntoutfire wrote: post #22
justalanm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abolish "mandatory" work. Now you can keep working if you want to. It was easy.

Work already is not mandatory. Anyone is free to figure out other ways to get food and shelter.

Not really, can I print money to get food? So, not free, it's just an illusion, at least for 99% of the people.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#26

Post by gls2ro »

justalanm wrote: post #20
jokoon wrote: post #5

I was again, arguing about work on reddit. Someone said that even animals "work" to survive. I found that the comparison was not really good. Food and shelter are abundant. Technology improved the human condition, but it made humans be much much less social, which is the main cause of inequalities. The individual car/kitchen/living room/bathroom generate exclusion. I'm an introvert, I want to have my safe space, but…

> In earlier times, in hunter gatherer societies, food was scarce and work was important. But today, you cannot tell people that working in fast food or in customer support is mandatory to eat and have a roof on your head. Just a note: hunter gatherers exist today, it's not something that humanity has given up completely, you've given it up, but it might be temporary (it seems that many current hunter gatherers went…

I am not sure what you are arguing here.

There might be hunter-gatherers, but they are few. Our society has given up on that and in the current state (people living on Earth) we cannot go back to that stage. For for all the purposes humanity has given up completely on being hunter-gatherers. Even if some people are still doing that, it is not a feasible for everybody.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#27

Post by justalanm »

gls2ro wrote: post #26
justalanm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In earlier times, in hunter gatherer societies, food was scarce and work was important. But today, you cannot tell people that working in fast food or in customer support is mandatory to eat and have a roof on your head. Just a note: hunter gatherers exist today, it's not something that humanity has given up completely, you've given it up, but it might be temporary (it seems that many current hunter gatherers went…

I am not sure what you are arguing here. There might be hunter-gatherers, but they are few. Our society has given up on that and in the current state (people living on Earth) we cannot go back to that stage. For for all the purposes humanity has given up completely on being hunter-gatherers. Even if some people are still doing that, it is not a feasible for everybody.

> Our society has given up on that

That's the point when I say: "you've given up on that", meaning that some societies have moved to something else, but there are many in the world. It's important to understand that it's a choice, there's no "right way forward", it isn't evolution, just organization.

> we cannot go back to that stage

Not saying we have to, but it might happen in the future for many reasons (nuclear wars, climate collapse, worse pandemics, etc). The point above is about that, what if we find a DIFFERENT way? It's up to us.

> humanity has given up completely on being hunter-gatherers

This statement doesn't help anyone and it isn't true, there are millions of hunter gatherers, and many more that are in between that and very limited agriculture. Do not mistake the west for humanity.

P.S.: this is just food for thought, in the sense that we must be open to new ideas, even those that completely destroy our "normal" perception of the world if we really want to advance as a species.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#28

Post by SuoDuanDao »

fifticon wrote: post #13
neilwilson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Food and shelter are abundant." Only because somebody made them by working Monday to Friday. That somebody could make less by working Monday to Tuesday. Food and shelter would be less abundant and the person currently working a full week to produce the surplus would instead have the rest of the week to themselves. The productivity, and the free time, would accrue to those expending the effort of production - as mora…

the wealth piled up with people like elon musk and jeff bezos indicate this is not what is being solved or handled here. The 188b$ of Bezos and 264b$ of Musk are clearly not dedicated to providing me with hamburgers and sleeping quarters. If I divided those 452b$ amongst 334m americans, I'd get around 1300$ per head. Though net worth is not the same as yearly income, I note that Musk's 264b$ represent 5.600 times the…

>Currently we organise our Lords through capitalism.

And that's how I want it. I may have a low chance of winning but nobody argues against my right to throw my hat in the ring if I want to rise above my station. Nobody but the anticapitalists that is.

Re: The Philosophy of Work [pdf]

#29

Post by nefitty »

e1g wrote: post #17
agumonkey wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind sharing the link. I often think about efforts of primitive~ survival vs efforts in societies. It seems there's something egotistic about survival (like animals) that satisfies a sense of self (nobody ever said no to hunting when they're hungry)

I’m currently reading “Work: A Deep History, from the Stone Age to the Age of Robots” [0] and it’s an anthropological exploration of these topics. I don’t know if I recommend it to all yet, but if you often think about the philosophy of labor, it might tickle your brain in the right way. [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0525561757/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch...

Maybe my Kindle will finally get a workout. Thank you!
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