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Train burglaries in LA

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Re: Train burglaries in LA

#301

Post by Z0rr0 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #293
Z0rr0 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think they are being robbed because it's easy to do so, with a low risk for any consequences. Similarly as to why shoplifting in LA is up. Ok, then why aren't you robbing or shoplifting if it's so easy and risk-free? Is it because you have too much to lose if you get caught? My whole point is that if people have a minimal standard of living, the fear of losing it will prevent them from committing crimes much more…

> Is it because you have too much to lose if you get caught? Absolutely not, risking a first time shoplifting charge is well within my risk tolerance. I'm not doing it because 1. I find crimes against person or property vile 2. It's not worth it. All things considered, it's probably a pretty abysmal hourly rate. > My whole point is that if people have a minimal standard of living, the fear of losing it will prevent t…

>I find crimes against person or property vile

...

>Start shooting at the thieves and see how fast the train robbery trend reverses.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#302

Post by snowgrove »

kqr wrote: post #219
snowgrove wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to protect oneself and one’s property goes at least as far back as the Code of Hammurabi. Every ancient civilization from Babylon to Tenochtitlan had some variation of this idea. It is practically the definition of civilization itself.

But unless I've misunderstood Graeber, the idea entered modern jurisprudence and took its recogniseable form from the Roman Empire. In other words, it either looked considerably different in civilisations like Babylon and Tenochtitian, or there's a historic gap of weaker property enforcement between those civilisations and ours.

I haven’t read any of David Graeber’s books. Your comment doesn’t make his thesis clear, but I do know what’s written in the Code of Hammurabi:

“If any one is committing a robbery and is caught, then he shall be put to death.”

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Codex_Hammurabi_(King_trans...

Likewise in pre-Columbian Mexico, as per the Florentine Codex:

“It was a crime to light a fire in the woods without permission, to cut down trees, to move boundary-markers, to take game from another man’s hunting trap and to steal crops from the fields. All these were crimes that could be punished by death.”

https://www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/ask-experts/which-were-t...

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#303

Post by tapas73 »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #158
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

While I understand your argument, it ignores the fact that, at scale, there is a non-insignificant chunk of society that is willing to break and bend the rules for personal gain, causing others loss, simply because that's the most direct path for them to obtain what they want. This is, at least in my opinion, exacerbated by the size and the diversity of the US population, and its variety of creeds, affluence levels,…

I think it's a plus for society if some criminals go from petty theft to white collar sociapth investor conning CEO. (or more realistically salesman)

Society saves on the need for physical security.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#304

Post by OJFord »

buryat wrote: post #176
imgabe wrote: post #77

Amazon has already started doing their own shipping. Maybe they'll hire their own mercenaries to guard the shipments too. Eventually they'll replace the government. United States of Amazon. We won't even have to change all our monogrammed stuff.

if they do it the way they did AWS it'll be amazing

Like 'I would like 1 minute of private security while I walk up this alley'? 'How many times can I walk it on the free tier?'

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#305

Post by palijer »

throwawaysea wrote: post #16

Soft on crime policies like restorative justice simply attract crime. No consequences means no deterrent. It’s not surprising this happens in LA - George Gascon is the DA and he’s facing increasing support for his recall ( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/liberal-beverly-hill... ).

How the heck is crime attractive? Why are you not attracted to this crime? Why am I not attracted to it as I sit working from home for a tech company?

I don't think crime is attractive, it isn't something that people want to do in a developed society. There are plenty of crimes I can commits and get away with but I am not attracted to doing them.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#306

Post by 271828182846 »

eloisius wrote: post #223
271828182846 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather than solved. what do you mean? death penalty ... solved!

Not solved. Then instead of sneaky thieves who run away, you get armed heists willing to kill cops and civilians to avoid getting busted.

to stop a bad guy with a gun it takes a good guy with a gun ... more guns - solved!

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#307

Post by Kiro »

nivenkos wrote: post #292
Kiro wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Look at Sweden. We have all those things and delivery companies have stopped delivering to certain areas due to their trucks being robbed. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/skane/malmobon-sylvias-adr... https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/uppsala/postnord-stoppar-p...

PostNord ever delivers things normally? /s

Actually relevant comment but before people say "oh, so it's just this scummy company overblowing things" - PostNord is the de facto postal service in Sweden and owned by the Swedish state.

However, they are also notoriously bad so the joke is spot on.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#308

Post by sgjohnson »

Z0rr0 wrote: post #301
sgjohnson wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it because you have too much to lose if you get caught? Absolutely not, risking a first time shoplifting charge is well within my risk tolerance. I'm not doing it because 1. I find crimes against person or property vile 2. It's not worth it. All things considered, it's probably a pretty abysmal hourly rate. > My whole point is that if people have a minimal standard of living, the fear of losing it will prevent t…

>I find crimes against person or property vile ... >Start shooting at the thieves and see how fast the train robbery trend reverses.

see: stand-your-ground law.

Pretty sure you'd draw that line somewhere. Perhaps it wouldn't be a train, but I can assure you with absolute certainty that there would be a point where you would value your lawfully possessed property over an attacker's life.

Anyway, we kind of went off track (no pun intended), but my initial point was that since you can rob these trains with basically no reprecussions, would it still be true if there was a chance that you might get shot in the process? I'd think not.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#309

Post by rvieira »

dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

My thoughts exactly.

This mindset is present in so many aspects of human society. For instance, drug addiction. Up until recently, people would typically ask "how do we stop people getting access to drugs" instead of "why do people do this".

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#310

Post by noir_lord »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #224
buran77 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indeed. There's so much focus on short-term solutions for crime – even outside of the US. There's an old nugget that if anyone could time-travel they'd go back in time and kill Hitler. Nobody would go a few more years back to educate him. People are not educated to look at the big picture but to react in the moment. Stop the theft as it's happening. Shoot. This goes best with societies where taking a life is consid…

Eh. People will disagree on what the root cause is. Just to give you an idea how easy it is to undermine this argument. What if I declare that the root cause of all this is being human. What do you do? Thinking of bigger picture is all well and good, but the moment you mention education I cannot help, but chuckle. In the context of US, education already is.. lets call it overburdened. Maybe the solution is not to ove…

> What if I declare that the root cause of all this is being human. What do you do?

Ask you what your evidence is for that assertion given that crime rates vary so widely around the world for disparate reasons.

The prevalence and types of crimes committed really do vary widely as well (though its often hard to get a clear picture since different countries have different reporting mechanisms (or none at all)).

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