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Train burglaries in LA

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Re: Train burglaries in LA

#281

Post by galgalesh »

skinkestek wrote: post #244
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

You make it sound like this is all necessity. I don't know if this is intentional or not. If it is intentional: Go look at the porch pirate glitterbomb videos and come back and tell me that it is because of necessity (I've only seen one go off in a pawn shop, the rest were people who wanted to improve their own home it seemed.) Trying to be intellectually honest here I'll note that maybe those videos weren't uploaded…

> - stealing must also not be accepted

It's a bit more complex than that, in my opinion. This is also about whether people respect/love society.

When you feel connected to society and feel thankful for what it gives to you, you will be much less likely to exhibit antisocial behavior.

In my opinion, this lack of connection to society is caused by

1. The US being a lot harder on its participants than in the Norden countries. This causes people to feel less thankful to it. 2. The division in US politics and media causes people to be disillusioned by society and feel no connection/relation to it.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#282

Post by palijer »

fblp wrote: post #12

Sigh - Any resourced and competent police or security force should be able to catch or deter thieves that are stealing packages from the same location . Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them.

Perhaps America should be looking at reducing the causes of what leads people to needing to be thieves, rather than catching them and putting them into the justice system (which has many systemic issues itself)

As a technical comparison; if you have a system that is creating a bug then it seems an incorrect stopgap solution to invest in support resources to handle user complaints rather than development and QA resources to reduce the chances of users running into the bug.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#283

Post by [deleted] »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #18
fblp wrote: post #12

Sigh - Any resourced and competent police or security force should be able to catch or deter thieves that are stealing packages from the same location . Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them.

> Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them. But it is a nonviolent crime. It seems like finding some way to prevent the thefts is better.

[deleted]

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#284

Post by ramoz »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #18
fblp wrote: post #12

Sigh - Any resourced and competent police or security force should be able to catch or deter thieves that are stealing packages from the same location . Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them.

> Additionally, mail theft laws which include prison as a consequence should be extended to package thefts if they don't already cover them. But it is a nonviolent crime. It seems like finding some way to prevent the thefts is better.

Putting this burden on the commercial parties is the type of thing that causes inflation.

Police this.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#285

Post by nitrogen »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #122
baby wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing has been happening in SF with homelessness. A lot of people think they should go to prison or be displaced somewhere else. It’s like refusing to accept that there’s a root cause.

If you're like some of my older relatives, people choose to become "beggars" because they "want something for nothing" and would rather do that than work a job and live in stable accommodation.

When I was a kid I met some new friends on a camping trip. Their grandparents were rolling in a nice trailer, had nice fishing gear, etc. One day I walked over to their campsite to invite the kids to play, and accidentally overheard them talking about making the kids put on ratty clothes so they could go begging, with the kids complaining.

Later in life I was a missionary, and we saw a dude in homeless attire get out of a nice Mercedes. He saw us as well and told us his story about making bank begging in front of a bank, showed us the $$$ suits stashed in his trunk, told us about his high end "compound" where he lived.

Then of course there was the guy who would block the sidewalk in front of a previous workplace in SF and harass any people passing by who didn't give him money.

There are many cases of people either straight up abusing the system, or acting in ways that will destroy the system.

The more of this there is -- the visible, abusive begging and taking over of shared public spaces -- the less empathy people will have for the invisible homeless who aren't causing trouble and will actually benefit from help.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#286

Post by orwin »

nitrogen wrote: post #254
user-the-name wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality implies poverty, so this question is pointless.

No, they are orthogonal. A society split between middle class workers and billionaires still has inequality without poverty. A society of 100% poverty has no inequality.

Unless poverty is relative.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#287

Post by hnaccy »

Z0rr0 wrote: post #140
rrdharan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a silly and needlessly anti-American framing. There’s plenty of high profile theft in Europe - more in fact, since the security is so lax: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/world/europe/Picasso-and-... European “security” has also given us gems like the Brussels and Manchester arena bombings. I don’t know why people in glass houses insist on throwing so many stones.

You are confusing high profile art theft in Europe with low profile UPS theft in the US. The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens. If those citizens lived in the EU, they would have free healthcare, free education, unemployment subsidies and housing. And so they would not be forced to steal our packages.

>The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens.

Wut? This isn't clear at all. Lots of theft like this or mass retail theft are done by semi-organized crime rings.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#289

Post by refurb »

dmurray wrote: post #168
zdragnar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, medicines shipped by specialty / remote pharmacies typically don't often go by train, as they need relatively climate controlled environments (above freezing, under a certain amount, etc). That said, steal the shots I take for an autoimmune disorder and I'll definitely consider it an assault on my health.

In the US, stealing Epipens and selling them on the black market makes them more accessible compared to than forcing people to pay the retail price. The manufacturer can always make more - they could accept 90% losses due to theft and still sell them profitably, based on the prices they offer in other countries [0]. So if you're going to play the "assault on my health" card, the guys robbing trains are literally Robi…

That’s ridiculous. You think someone is going to buy an Epi-pen off some random dude on the street?

Easier to just go to the ER and not pay the bill.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#290

Post by nitrogen »

kogepathic wrote: post #228
gonehome wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo the comment you’re replying to is a kind of progressive left-wing university faculty lounge flavor of upper middle class politics and is not representative of the vast majority of Americans (but is overrepresented online). I’d suspect most Americans (across the political spectrum) would see these train robberies and think “these people should go to jail”, rather than moralizing about why it’s not their fault.

> I’d suspect most Americans (across the political spectrum) would see these train robberies and think “these people should go to jail”, rather than moralizing about why it’s not their fault. Jail isn't some magical free solution to your crime problems. Would Americans still be so eager to imprison someone if they knew that the cost to incarcerate someone is ~$36k/yr? [1] The government defines poverty as $12k/yr for…

What is the cost of not imprisoning criminals? How much economic damage is caused by shutting down stores that keep getting looted?
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