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Train burglaries in LA

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Re: Train burglaries in LA

#251

Post by ramoz »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #190
mngnt wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause is the same as it always has been: it is easier for some people to get to the desired standard of living by stealing/other crime than by working. Why crime us going up? Because of higher desired standard (every body needs an iPhone, brand name shoes and hats), more difficulty with earning a wage (largely, difficulty getting a job at all) and decreased difficulty in crime (defunding police, more aesily avail…

> defunding police Police budgets are, by and large, still increasing in the US.

Faced with massive demonstrations over the murder of George Floyd, the Los Angeles City Council took a dramatic and symbolic step last year, cutting $150 million from the Police Department’s budget and promising to put that money into other social services.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#252

Post by daedalus_f »

vidarh wrote: post #194
gonehome wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably SF’s lack of police response enables continued drug abuse and homelessness. See: https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2021/rescuing-jessica-s... This person has no interest in treatment. They want to do drugs and take advantage of what’s provided to keep doing that. You can’t fix that with hotels. You either need to require treatment or imprison (paired with arresting dealers). On the more progressive end, m…

Your thinking here is still focused on symptoms rather than causes. Most people don't develop debilitating drug addictions without underlying problems. Even most people with drug addictions don't get to a point where they can't hold down a job or have a need to carry out crime to fund it, but of those who do it's worth considering why when e.g. a typical heroin addict can hold down a job and could have funded their a…

It's aside your point, but you may be thinking of fentanyl rather than diamorphine (street name heroin) with regards to the NHS. The former is often used in NHS hospitals for intraoperative and postoperative pain relief, the latter almost never for anything.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#253

Post by refurb »

baby wrote: post #115
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

The same thing has been happening in SF with homelessness. A lot of people think they should go to prison or be displaced somewhere else. It’s like refusing to accept that there’s a root cause.

When you’ve got a Head of Homeless Services who see the homeless as a part of class warfare you realize they don’t want the problem fixed. They’re fighting capitalism by making the problem bigger, not smaller.

“Why do they do it? Radical anti-system ideology. “There’s a San Francisco Coalition on Homelessness hat which says, ‘Coalition on Homelessness: On The Frontlines of Class Warfare,’” said the insider. “They feel like they’re fighting class warfare. They tell people to not take shelter.””

https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/san-francisco-ho...

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#254

Post by nitrogen »

user-the-name wrote: post #232
KSteffensen wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is crime rate proportional to inequality or poverty?

Inequality implies poverty, so this question is pointless.

No, they are orthogonal. A society split between middle class workers and billionaires still has inequality without poverty. A society of 100% poverty has no inequality.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#255

Post by sharikous »

mtsr wrote: post #164
mngnt wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause is the same as it always has been: it is easier for some people to get to the desired standard of living by stealing/other crime than by working. Why crime us going up? Because of higher desired standard (every body needs an iPhone, brand name shoes and hats), more difficulty with earning a wage (largely, difficulty getting a job at all) and decreased difficulty in crime (defunding police, more aesily avail…

> Humans will always crave to have more than each other ad will steal, loot, defraud, do anything to get there. Yes and currently society has many many ways for the privileged to get even more than others than they already have, in ways that are legally accepted even if they’re morally reprehensible. And as long as we don’t change that and make the playing field more even, I don’t think judging petty theft so harshly…

When you don't judge theft harshly you actually promote a culture of dishonesty.

It is the cruelest and vilest thing to do to those poor people who actually don't steal.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#256

Post by Z0rr0 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #216
Z0rr0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing high profile art theft in Europe with low profile UPS theft in the US. The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens. If those citizens lived in the EU, they would have free healthcare, free education, unemployment subsidies and housing. And so they would not be forced to steal our packages.

Nobody is "forced" to steal packages. "The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens." I don't think that's true. I think they are being robbed because it's easy to do so, with a low risk for any consequences. Similarly as to why shoplifting in LA is up. Start shooting at the thieves and see how fast the train robbery trend reverses.

>I think they are being robbed because it's easy to do so, with a low risk for any consequences. Similarly as to why shoplifting in LA is up.

Ok, then why aren't you robbing or shoplifting if it's so easy and risk-free? Is it because you have too much to lose if you get caught?

My whole point is that if people have a minimal standard of living, the fear of losing it will prevent them from committing crimes much more effectively than some nut shooting at them

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#257

Post by xorfish »

eloisius wrote: post #222
gonehome wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably SF’s lack of police response enables continued drug abuse and homelessness. See: https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2021/rescuing-jessica-s... This person has no interest in treatment. They want to do drugs and take advantage of what’s provided to keep doing that. You can’t fix that with hotels. You either need to require treatment or imprison (paired with arresting dealers). On the more progressive end, m…

>maybe drug clinics that administer drugs to addicts for free onsite That is an interesting idea. All kinds of ethical issues for handing out free heroin, but why not take all the confiscated drugs, test them for safety and hand them out for free at clinics with some damage-reduction safe guards like daily per-person limits, offer rehab and mental health services, etc? Turn addicts into informants without even trying…

Heroin itself is much less damaging to your body than more popular drugs like tobacco or alcohol.

Making it harder for addicts to get heroin or a replacement will only increase the energy they will spend on getting it. This makes it nearly impossible to get to a better place in their life. It is mostly getting the drug that has a negative effect on holding down a job, not the drug itself.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#258

Post by ploek »

null_object wrote: post #159
Youden wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll have to be more specific than "EU" because I've never seen an American-style SUV in Western Europe. Closest I can get is a crossover SUV like a Mercedes GLA.

> I've never seen an American-style SUV in Western Europe I was actually thinking about these SUVs this morning, as their were two Cadillac Escalades [0] parked on my block in central Stockholm as I walked my kid to school. The town is *full* of these types of vehicles (there are even full-size Hummers driving around). The "EU" can't be characterized in this uniform way - the different countries are totally unlike ea…

I guess it's always a question of perspective. Coming from Germany, there definitely is _more_ of a cycling culture in Sweden than in Germany. The cycling infrastructure is better and better maintained (snow plowing, etc.). Of course that is also a generalization, as the differences can be big within a country as well. (My frame of reference for Sweden is mostly Uppsala)

But the noticeable presence of SUV and even Pickup models I usually associate with the US in Sweden also surprised me. Those are rare in Germany.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#259

Post by ramoz »

vidarh wrote: post #194
gonehome wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably SF’s lack of police response enables continued drug abuse and homelessness. See: https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2021/rescuing-jessica-s... This person has no interest in treatment. They want to do drugs and take advantage of what’s provided to keep doing that. You can’t fix that with hotels. You either need to require treatment or imprison (paired with arresting dealers). On the more progressive end, m…

Your thinking here is still focused on symptoms rather than causes. Most people don't develop debilitating drug addictions without underlying problems. Even most people with drug addictions don't get to a point where they can't hold down a job or have a need to carry out crime to fund it, but of those who do it's worth considering why when e.g. a typical heroin addict can hold down a job and could have funded their a…

Root cause prevent - my friend who got hooked ok coke & lost everything for getting caught on the job site would’ve been better off if that coke dealer had been busted before my friend bought coke. Or if my friend’s middle-class parents had disciplined him more. Or maybe if he had a more ridged sports program in college that helped athletes avoid the perils of college parties Vs cutting him.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#260

Post by scollet »

oh_sigh wrote: post #246
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

It's quite common on European high streets to see private security guards outside of clothing and electronic stores, whereas that is fairly rare in the states. At least, I can certainly attest to their presence in the UK, Italy, Spain and France. And I think everyone individually is trying to minimize societal ills like theft. But good luck getting enough people to agree on what is the right path forward.

Yeah, we have public police in front of our stores instead.
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