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Train burglaries in LA

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Re: Train burglaries in LA

#161

Post by snowgrove »

kqr wrote: post #112
jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing this is a two part issue. One, we cannot get rid of physical security, as everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their property. Two, the way to prevent crime from happening is to make people feel in the heart and soul that crime is morally wrong and destructive for the community around them. This is not instinctual human behavior. For those who learn this and live this, great. For those who…

> everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their property. To be clear, this is a political ideal of the Roman Empire that has influenced much of modern civlisation, it's not an inevitable state of humanity.

The right to protect oneself and one’s property goes at least as far back as the Code of Hammurabi. Every ancient civilization from Babylon to Tenochtitlan had some variation of this idea. It is practically the definition of civilization itself.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#162

Post by qwertox »

How about putting something like an electrical fence around those containers, maybe even just one or two wires, focused on the parts where they get opened. They could also signal when a container has been opened if should they get cut.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#163

Post by gonehome »

DanHulton wrote: post #125
jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing this is a two part issue. One, we cannot get rid of physical security, as everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their property. Two, the way to prevent crime from happening is to make people feel in the heart and soul that crime is morally wrong and destructive for the community around them. This is not instinctual human behavior. For those who learn this and live this, great. For those who…

You want to know why I don't steal? It's because I don't have to. I have sufficient security of income and opportunity that it's not necessary. I'm not bragging, though, what I'm getting at is that you're missing a huge part of why people steal - maybe even the largest part: because they feel they have to survive, or because it's okay because society is stacked against them. This is what above was talking about when…

There are a lot of poor people who are not thieves.

I’ve always felt this framing condescends to them. Sure, there’s certainly more incentive to steal at the academic extremes (bread for your starving family), but people raiding trains for packages is something else.

There should be police response to this, and people doing it should get charged.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#164

Post by mtsr »

mngnt wrote: post #145
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

The cause is the same as it always has been: it is easier for some people to get to the desired standard of living by stealing/other crime than by working. Why crime us going up? Because of higher desired standard (every body needs an iPhone, brand name shoes and hats), more difficulty with earning a wage (largely, difficulty getting a job at all) and decreased difficulty in crime (defunding police, more aesily avail…

> Humans will always crave to have more than each other ad will steal, loot, defraud, do anything to get there.

Yes and currently society has many many ways for the privileged to get even more than others than they already have, in ways that are legally accepted even if they’re morally reprehensible. And as long as we don’t change that and make the playing field more even, I don’t think judging petty theft so harshly makes any sense at all.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#166

Post by donny2018 »

DanHulton wrote: post #125
jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing this is a two part issue. One, we cannot get rid of physical security, as everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their property. Two, the way to prevent crime from happening is to make people feel in the heart and soul that crime is morally wrong and destructive for the community around them. This is not instinctual human behavior. For those who learn this and live this, great. For those who…

You want to know why I don't steal? It's because I don't have to. I have sufficient security of income and opportunity that it's not necessary. I'm not bragging, though, what I'm getting at is that you're missing a huge part of why people steal - maybe even the largest part: because they feel they have to survive, or because it's okay because society is stacked against them. This is what above was talking about when…

I live in a 3-rd world country that has like 40 times less GDP per capita than the United States. The vast majority of our people work in the fields growing crops and are much poorer than the poorest communities in the US. Our people have to survive, like for real. By your logic, theft, crime, murders and robberies should be rampant in my country because they “have to”. But my country is much safer in that regard that the US. Because we don’t “have to”. People in need do whatever they can to find a job. Those who can’t find a job, they go to Russia and find a job there. In no way in our culture it is considered acceptable to steal even if you “have to”. People are not animals. Social good, social relationships, morals, good parenting and family values are real things.

I’m not talking about those incapable to work, of course. Funny thing is, our government gives shelter to such people, and they don’t live in the streets as well.

United States is a paradoxical country.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#167

Post by snowgrove »

Z0rr0 wrote: post #140
rrdharan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a silly and needlessly anti-American framing. There’s plenty of high profile theft in Europe - more in fact, since the security is so lax: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/world/europe/Picasso-and-... European “security” has also given us gems like the Brussels and Manchester arena bombings. I don’t know why people in glass houses insist on throwing so many stones.

You are confusing high profile art theft in Europe with low profile UPS theft in the US. The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens. If those citizens lived in the EU, they would have free healthcare, free education, unemployment subsidies and housing. And so they would not be forced to steal our packages.

>The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens.

That isn’t clear to me at all. In Washington DC, for example, much of the recent increase in theft (grand theft auto especially) has been committed by unsupervised juveniles. AFAICT they do it because they’re bored, it’s easy, it’s exciting, and they generally escape punishment. Who’s to say it’s not a similar situation with these train robberies?

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#168

Post by dmurray »

zdragnar wrote: post #50
tehbeard wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure with the contents of some of the boxes being COVID tests or EpiPens if it can truly be considered "non-violent".

Fortunately, medicines shipped by specialty / remote pharmacies typically don't often go by train, as they need relatively climate controlled environments (above freezing, under a certain amount, etc). That said, steal the shots I take for an autoimmune disorder and I'll definitely consider it an assault on my health.

In the US, stealing Epipens and selling them on the black market makes them more accessible compared to than forcing people to pay the retail price. The manufacturer can always make more - they could accept 90% losses due to theft and still sell them profitably, based on the prices they offer in other countries [0].

So if you're going to play the "assault on my health" card, the guys robbing trains are literally Robin Hood saving lives.

Yeah, it introduces some problems around chain of custody, counterfeiting...but people who can afford the $300 can continue to pay the retail price.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mylan-nl-pfizer-epipen-id...

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#169

Post by scollet »

Liquix wrote: post #116
labrador wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: 22 Are Arrested in Thefts Of Kennedy Airport Cargo https://archive.is/F6QPf Those trains must be stalled there for long periods of time. I can't imagine they're robbing moving trains, but I could be wrong as thieves often prove to be very resourceful

> I can't imagine they're robbing moving trains WE NEED EVERY LAST DROP, JESSE

Just rewatched this. Probably the best scene of the season.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#170

Post by mtsr »

hyperman1 wrote: post #154
DanHulton wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to know why I don't steal? It's because I don't have to. I have sufficient security of income and opportunity that it's not necessary. I'm not bragging, though, what I'm getting at is that you're missing a huge part of why people steal - maybe even the largest part: because they feel they have to survive, or because it's okay because society is stacked against them. This is what above was talking about when…

What you're saying is, if the crooks have their basic necessities fulfilled, they would become politicians and CEO's instead of thieves? Only half joking. You're right that you can fix 90% of crimes your way. But there is a group of people that, for some reason, just want to see the world burn or feel the power to make others miserable. We need to deal with them somehow.

Sure, but the US probably doesn’t need to have (one of the?) highest prison populations per capita in the world.
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